Angry fans/hourihane 😬

[Tyler Durden]

3 hours ago, angieram said:

Hourihane was asked about tactics at the fans forum and said it was up to the players to adapt to what the manager wants. In saying today, we are trying, he's giving the same message.

I think it is his way of saying we're doing what we're told to do. My take on that (both times) is that it's not what he - and probably several others - wants to do. 

I'm maybe just thinking that because it's not what I want them to do, either.

So that clears that up then 

[angieram]

9 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Careful. I was criticised for saying the same thing.

That doesn't bother me. It's just my opinion and others are entitled to disagree with it. 

[Srg]

10 hours ago, angieram said:

Hourihane was asked about tactics at the fans forum and said it was up to the players to adapt to what the manager wants. In saying today, we are trying, he's giving the same message.

I think it is his way of saying we're doing what we're told to do. My take on that (both times) is that it's not what he - and probably several others - wants to do. 

I'm maybe just thinking that because it's not what I want them to do, either.

Or the very realistic alternative that his, and a few others, legs have gone. 

[angieram]

Just now, Srg said:

Or the very realistic alternative that his, and a few others, legs have gone. 

I don't disagree with this,  SRG, but I also think that Warne isn't setting the team up in the best way to balance the skilled but older players with the younger players we do have. And he has hardly improved that situation with the type of players he has chosen to bring in so far.

He could get us to let the ball do some of the work rather than tired legs. 

I'm not Hourihane's biggest fan but I think he is an astute reader of the game. 

[Mihangel]

10 hours ago, angieram said:

Hourihane was asked about tactics at the fans forum and said it was up to the players to adapt to what the manager wants. In saying today, we are trying, he's giving the same message.

I think it is his way of saying we're doing what we're told to do. My take on that (both times) is that it's not what he - and probably several others - wants to do. 

I'm maybe just thinking that because it's not what I want them to do, either.

I agree - It can't be much fun trying to play in a way that doesn't suit and clearly finding it very difficult.

For what it's worth, I am and always will be a "give the manager some time" kind of person but I think that time might be coming. We're just not showing much sign of improving. It's unimportant but I struggle with Warne as a personality and I don't think I'm alone, it doesn't help his cause.

[RoyMac5]

50 minutes ago, angieram said:

I don't disagree with this,  SRG, but I also think that Warne isn't setting the team up in the best way to balance the skilled but older players with the younger players we do have. And he has hardly improved that situation with the type of players he has chosen to bring in so far.

He could get us to let the ball do some of the work rather than tired legs. 

I'm not Hourihane's biggest fan but I think he is an astute reader of the game. 

👏

Let the ball do the work, but we do by launching it forward and into the box. I don't think the players legs (bar maybe Bradley) have gone, but I think their hearts have. Even Bradley could be used better if we remember Paul McGrath.

Hourihane was an astute choice of captain by Warne, he's taking some of the heat off him. 😉 😄The players (all, most?) seemed to think he'd make a good captain and many of them have played for excellent captains no doubt. We have seen Hourihane play well and run well in games, but as he said he does what the manager asks of him.

[Shuff264]

12 hours ago, De22Ram said:

 

Feel for Hourihane, he's a good player.

Squad is full of good players, they just simply aren't being given the opportunity to show it.

[8Leeds]

Horrible to see Hourihane take the brunt of the frustrations, hopefully he knows it isn’t personally aimed at him. 

[Srg]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

I don't disagree with this,  SRG, but I also think that Warne isn't setting the team up in the best way to balance the skilled but older players with the younger players we do have. And he has hardly improved that situation with the type of players he has chosen to bring in so far.

He could get us to let the ball do some of the work rather than tired legs. 

I'm not Hourihane's biggest fan but I think he is an astute reader of the game. 

Fundamentally, there’s a lot of things that could be done differently to help, but the one overriding factor was the inability to sign a competent striker that you could rely on to be in the team every single game. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Srg said:

Fundamentally, there’s a lot of things that could be done differently to help, but the one overriding factor was the inability to sign a competent striker that you could rely on to be in the team every single game. 

Impossible. But Waghorn would certainly do the job better than Collins.

[Leeds Ram]

It shouldn't be Hourihane going to the fans defending the miserable state of affairs but the manager. Warne's a coward who wants to be loved but can't handle the criticism coming his way. We've seen signs of this behavioural trait from the bloke throughout the season and quite frankly it's one of the ugliest ones a manager can have. If he has any chance of staying long term he needs to buckle up, accept the rough with the smooth and actually do something to earn the praise he clearly so desperately craves.

[Srg]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Impossible. But Waghorn would certainly do the job better than Collins.

That is true. It’s frankly pure negligence given the subpar options that Brown hasn’t gotten a single league minute. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Srg said:

That is true. It’s frankly pure negligence given the subpar options that Brown hasn’t gotten a single league minute. 

Would have got on in the pizza cup if we'd have been 3-0 up, tactics mate.

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, Srg said:

Fundamentally, there’s a lot of things that could be done differently to help, but the one overriding factor was the inability to sign a competent striker that you could rely on to be in the team every single game. 

I think the counterpoint to that is, if you're having to consistently rely on a top-class striker taking the one chance that comes his way to win a game, then there's something fundamental going wrong elsewhere.  Obviously we'd all love a proper goal-scorer, and no doubt the recruitment in that area has been questionable etc, but we've still got 3 senior strikers who have all scored at reasonable-ish rates at this level or higher before, and plenty of others in the team who've shown they can chip in too.  The fact that they aren't scoring at those kind of rates this season has to be down to how they are being used.  You can't just shrug and say "nothing we can do, no striker", as a manager you have to find a way to work with what you've got.

[DiggerB]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Hourihane was an astute choice of captain by Warne

Hourihane isn’t Warne’s captain though. Although, bar Bradley or Foz I’m not sure who else he wouldve given it to.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, DiggerB said:

Hourihane isn’t Warne’s captain though. Although, bar Bradley or Foz I’m not sure who else he wouldve given it to.

That was sarcasm, as the emoji 😉 pointed out. Warne has done well out of the players choice. Hourihane had the guts to front up to the fans. Apparently Warne did his little 'clapping the fans' performance pre the game! 

[Srg]

3 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I think the counterpoint to that is, if you're having to consistently rely on a top-class striker taking the one chance that comes his way to win a game, then there's something fundamental going wrong elsewhere.  Obviously we'd all love a proper goal-scorer, and no doubt the recruitment in that area has been questionable etc, but we've still got 3 senior strikers who have all scored at reasonable-ish rates at this level or higher before, and plenty of others in the team who've shown they can chip in too.  The fact that they aren't scoring at those kind of rates this season has to be down to how they are being used.  You can't just shrug and say "nothing we can do, no striker", as a manager you have to find a way to work with what you've got.

That isn’t really what I was saying. It’s the fact the type of strikers we have are meaning nothing tactically will ever work as well as it could. It’s not the lack of a 20 goal a season striker. Lack of pace, power, touch, athleticism. No matter what we set up like, we will be papering over a gaping hole. 

[Black ('n' White) Sheep]

11 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I think the counterpoint to that is, if you're having to consistently rely on a top-class striker taking the one chance that comes his way to win a game, then there's something fundamental going wrong elsewhere.  Obviously we'd all love a proper goal-scorer, and no doubt the recruitment in that area has been questionable etc, but we've still got 3 senior strikers who have all scored at reasonable-ish rates at this level or higher before, and plenty of others in the team who've shown they can chip in too.  The fact that they aren't scoring at those kind of rates this season has to be down to how they are being used.  You can't just shrug and say "nothing we can do, no striker", as a manager you have to find a way to work with what you've got.

We've got someone with the potential to be a good striker (at least at this level) sitting in the youth team unable to get a league minute. We know what we get with Collins and Waggy (who IMO are both past their best...)... why not give the unknown a chance when we obviously need to try something different... and it baffles me that PW seems so against the idea!

[duncanjwitham]

Just now, Srg said:

That isn’t really what I was saying. It’s the fact the type of strikers we have are meaning nothing tactically will ever work as well as it could. It’s not the lack of a 20 goal a season striker. Lack of pace, power, touch, athleticism. No matter what we set up like, we will be papering over a gaping hole. 

That's kind of what I'm getting at too, although I think we have (just about) enough there to work with if we actually set out to use it.  For example, Collins will absolutely score goals at this level if you put a dozen crosses on his head every game, but we just don't.  We start with inverted wingers, or wingbacks or whatever, and just lump long balls up to him to fight for, or chip balls over the top for him to run onto.  Collins is averaging less that one shot from a header per 90 minutes this season, he's just not going to get goals in that circumstance.

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

That's kind of what I'm getting at too, although I think we have (just about) enough there to work with if we actually set out to use it.  For example, Collins will absolutely score goals at this level if you put a dozen crosses on his head every game, but we just don't.  We start with inverted wingers, or wingbacks or whatever, and just lump long balls up to him to fight for, or chip balls over the top for him to run onto.  Collins is averaging less that one shot from a header per 90 minutes this season, he's just not going to get goals in that circumstance.

I don't know the stats but why do you think Collins is better with his head than his feet? He seems to have a decent shot on him but we rarely get the ball in the box on floor it seems? But either way if we created enough chances we have enough attackers who can score goals, either by being in the 'right place', or by running into the box, or by shooting from outside the box.

Why didn't Nat shoot yesterday but fluffed a pass to Waggy and then Sibs tried to score with the rebound? Why isn't Barks getting into the box more to attack, he's shown he knows were to be. Waghorn knows how to score but is played as a 10. Oh there's lots of players who can score given decent chances, actually there's less players who can score from balls slung into the box. It's no longer anything but exasperating from the manager.