kevinhectoring Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, ramit said: Argue your points by all means, but please don't be so condescending. Is it possible that your rejection of the possibility of Israeli foreknowledge is based more on emotional simple denial than logic in this case? Zionists have a history of sacrificing their people for gain, Israel would likely not exist, if not for their conniving. You claim that IDF senior officers would have to have been in the know, that is simply not true, they are soldiers, they do as they are told, a secret operation is of course worked in a need to know compartmentalized way. I shan’t ‘argue’ with you any more. Perhaps by extension you believe the US connived in the 9/11 attacks. To be honest I find your post disturbing and it’s disappointing the mods didn’t pull it Crewton and ariotofmyown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted November 9, 2023 Author Share Posted November 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Highgate said: It's hard to even comprehend the courage of someone like this. I wonder if her telling people how desperate the situation is in Gaza will hit home more than Palestinian diplomats and Queen Rania etc. I hope so. European leaders should hear her and then go look in the mirror. Ask if this is what they truly think is right Highgate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 7 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: I shan’t ‘argue’ with you any more. Perhaps by extension you believe the US connived in the 9/11 attacks. To be honest I find your post disturbing and it’s disappointing the mods didn’t pull it Now you want to shut me up, interesting. What was disturbing in my post, that I questioned the logic of your argument, do you have exclusive rights to such methods as portrayed in your conspiracy theorists remarks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted November 9, 2023 Author Share Posted November 9, 2023 26 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: The elephant in the room is Trump. The US has given Israel unstinting support for 40 years which has contributed to this mess. Biden and Blinken are now making clear their view that Israel needs to find a political settlement with the Palestinians. Unfortunately, when the dust settles on all the bodies, Israel will calculate that if they drag their feet long enough, Trump will become president and all pressure on them to seek a long term peace will dissipate. That could lead to WW3 I think Blinken and Biden are absolutely full of s***. They probably didn't expect the world to react as it has thinking everyone would swallow the narrative. But unfortunately for them it comes so close to Ukraine/Russia that there's some blatant hypocrisy. I think it's just lip service. Eventually they'll talk Israel into ceasefire but unfortunately Palestinians will have to go live in Sinai or internment camps while the region undergoes a rebuild. That will be the official line. But the camps will be permanent. Israel will definitely drag their feet. And wait for the next uprising. I don't think it matters if it's Republican or Democrat... The foreign policy always seems pretty much the same. Obama at least talked about Palestinians like they were human from what I remember. Trump of course did his best to goad them. Is Trump likely to get back in? Jeez. He'll have them levelling Lebanon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Can anyone explain when Armistice Sunday became Armistice Weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrycav81 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 minute ago, GboroRam said: Can anyone explain when Armistice Sunday became Armistice Weekend? Armistice day is Saturday 11/11. Sunday is Remembrance Sunday they’ve just happened to fall next to each other this year Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Can anyone explain when Armistice Sunday became Armistice Weekend? Armisitice Month I thought. Our Grandads didn't die vs the Nazis just so a BBC presenter could record a show in the summer without a poppy, knowing full well it would be broadcast in mid-October Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 2 hours ago, GboroRam said: Can anyone explain when Armistice Sunday became Armistice Weekend? When the Home Secretary realised it was convenient to her to blur the lines so she could get on her soap box. Grumpy Git and GboroRam 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 It seems an odd strategy for a government and a nation's security service to follow: make yourselves look utterly incompetent, negligent and/or mercenary that the public lose all confidence in you to protect them (allegedly) all in the cause of starting a wider conflict so that multi-billionaires can make a few more billions that presumably they'll have to share around (unless the theory is that one of the serial conspiracists' bogey men is pulling all the strings.....). But I'm supposed to believe this is more plausible than the theory of actual incompetence/negligence?? ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 8 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: Trump will become president and all pressure on them to seek a long term peace will dissipate. That could lead to WW3 He was right about everything 🙄 https://news.sky.com/video/donald-trump-says-us-is-close-to-being-in-third-world-war-as-he-avoids-republican-debate-13003835 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, Crewton said: It seems an odd strategy for a government and a nation's security service to follow: make yourselves look utterly incompetent, negligent and/or mercenary that the public lose all confidence in you to protect them (allegedly) all in the cause of starting a wider conflict so that multi-billionaires can make a few more billions that presumably they'll have to share around (unless the theory is that one of the serial conspiracists' bogey men is pulling all the strings.....). But I'm supposed to believe this is more plausible than the theory of actual incompetence/negligence?? You should start a youtube channel, this stuff is gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 9 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: Netanyahu conspiring in a scheme that results in the death of 1,400 Israelis and 150 being held hostage. That's you assuming/ believing those figures. kevinhectoring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: That's you assuming/ believing those figures. If they were wildly inaccurate, wouldn't you expect a denial from the Palestinian side? I've not seen one, have you? cstand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 On 07/11/2023 at 19:15, Eddie said: Every major war ever has had religion at the heart - or the periphery - of it. What you are saying, though, is the only justification for religion. "I don't want to die. I'm scared of ceasing to exist. I know - let's pretend there is a hereafter" The Palestinian resistance when it was secular was just as bloodthirsty as Hamas is tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 9 hours ago, Alpha said: I think Blinken and Biden are absolutely full of s***. They probably didn't expect the world to react as it has thinking everyone would swallow the narrative. But unfortunately for them it comes so close to Ukraine/Russia that there's some blatant hypocrisy. I think it's just lip service. Eventually they'll talk Israel into ceasefire but unfortunately Palestinians will have to go live in Sinai or internment camps while the region undergoes a rebuild. That will be the official line. But the camps will be permanent. Israel will definitely drag their feet. And wait for the next uprising. I don't think it matters if it's Republican or Democrat... The foreign policy always seems pretty much the same. Obama at least talked about Palestinians like they were human from what I remember. Trump of course did his best to goad them. Is Trump likely to get back in? Jeez. He'll have them levelling Lebanon! Biden and Blinken especially has tried to get the US presence and interference in the ME way down to prioritise other FP issues. This obviously has come at a time when the administration is on the ropes domestically and diplomatically has Russia and China which they want to prioritise. I think they're less hypocritical and trying to stop the region falling into chaos, which could still happen. Obama was not as good as Bush was who was the first US President to call for Palestinian statehood if memory serves me correctly. Obama's stance on the Arab Springs was also nothing short of disgraceful and has helped cement a political order which is one of the reasons the region finds itself where it is now. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: Obama was not as good as Bush was who was the first US President to call for Palestinian statehood if memory serves me correctly. Obama's stance on the Arab Springs was also nothing short of disgraceful and has helped cement a political order which is one of the reasons the region finds itself where it is now. Clinton was the first U.S. president to make support for Palestinian statehood a matter of unofficial U.S. policy. The policies of ending Israel’s occupation and establishing an independent Palestinian state were formalized by George W. Bush. Barack Obama later reiterated the positions of his predecessors, though by this time they were no longer a matter of bipartisan consensus. Also, when you say Obama was 'not as good as Bush', in what regard? When Obama called for a two-state solution with the stipulation that the “borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines, with mutually agreed swaps” — essentially paraphrasing language used by his predecessor — he was met with wild outcry from congressional Republicans and charges of having thrown Israel “under the bus.” Back on Gaza, the Hamas Health Ministry now claiming in excess of 10,000 Palestinians deaths in the last 30 days with over 3,000 of them children. Grim AF and it needs to stop. Edited November 9, 2023 by Comrade 86 Highgate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Below are Satellite images of Gaza split in 2, Not sure who owns the said Satellite...I just wonder where the Satellite was pointing on OCT 7th when Hamas marched into Israel 🤷♂️ https://news.sky.com/story/how-israel-has-separated-gaza-into-two-as-it-tries-to-wipe-out-hamas-13002112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 29 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said: Clinton was the first U.S. president to make support for Palestinian statehood a matter of unofficial U.S. policy. The policies of ending Israel’s occupation and establishing an independent Palestinian state were formalized by George W. Bush. Barack Obama later reiterated the positions of his predecessors, though by this time they were no longer a matter of bipartisan consensus. Also, when you say Obama was 'not as good as Bush', in what regard? When Obama called for a two-state solution with the stipulation that the “borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines, with mutually agreed swaps” — essentially paraphrasing language used by his predecessor — he was met with wild outcry from congressional Republicans and charges of having thrown Israel “under the bus.” Back on Gaza, the Hamas Health Ministry now claiming in excess of 10,000 Palestinians deaths in the last 30 days with over 3,000 of them children. Grim AF and it needs to stop. I meant Bush was better than Obama more generally on the Middle East. Obama flattered to deceive really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 I suspect there's a longer game in play - and very telling that the US yesterday issued a warning to Israel that they counldn't remain as an occupying force after this latest incursion - to which Israel are probably (privately) thinking "who's going to stop us then?" - the West won't kick Israel out and Iran seem happy to be having a proxy war but won't want to get involved in the actual fighting. In 12 months time, there may well be different boundaries in place and very little anyone can do to put them back to their original positions - which from Israel's viewpoint is a huge win for the cost of a few hundred of their civiliians....and those who think the leadership (Hamas or Israel) wouldn't be happy sacrificing lives to help their long term aims is being naive - politicians don't think like you or I (if you want examples nearer home, Maggie was happy to lose members of the armed forces and the merchant navy in the Falklands to win an election; Blair committed our armed forces to a war with no evidence to support his decision and no plan how to end the ensuing conflict; Matt Hancock wanted to decide who the NHS could kill off during covid - they all have utter contempt for the lives they sacrifce to meet their long-term aims....) Ram-Alf, ramit and Archied 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Crewton said: If they were wildly inaccurate, wouldn't you expect a denial from the Palestinian side? I've not seen one, have you? There is no "Palestinian side", why aren't you grasping this simple fact? Hamas however are part of the plot so they're not going to dispute anything. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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