Summer recruitment, and how will it end?

[Caerphilly Ram]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

From that interview, the first topic of discussion feeds into what @brady1993 keeps saying.

When asked are these players being able to play his system, Warne's response: "I don't think we're losing due to tactics or player deficiencies... or a flaw in the system". To me, this is a concern that he didn't categorically deny it, and cannot see the very obvious reason why we have been struggling so far against top half opposition, especially when he has signed 8 players specifically for his system.

I agree, that is a concern. He seems to be of the belief that his system will work and it will come good, which is one of my ongoing concerns with Paul Warne. He’s said (and shown at Rotherham) that he can be flexible tactically, he’s yet to convince me of that at Derby.

However that isn’t the point I was making. That interview does tell us there is some contingency planning of sorts taking place. So if things don’t improve under Warne, if he moves on for one reason or another, it does sound like Mark Thomas is working to a longer term vision with recruitment.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[brady1993]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

From that interview, the first topic of discussion feeds into what @brady1993 keeps saying.

When asked are these players being able to play his system, Warne's response: "I don't think we're losing due to tactics or player deficiencies... or a flaw in the system". To me, this is a concern that he didn't categorically deny it, and cannot see the very obvious reason why we have been struggling so far against top half opposition, especially when he has signed 8 players specifically for his system.

Its a nagging concern I've had about him from the off is that his view of tactics is narrow and simplistic, so he cant correctly diagnose when something is wrong to change it. The solution always seems to be work harder/be better/get the ball forwards faster. 

[trappatoni]

12 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

I've never thought this until the last few days - we're in danger of staying in this league for a good few years. Nothing is telling me any different. 

We're always plagued with long term injuries and on our budget, can't replace. We only replace the quantity not quality and when we fail to attract players, it makes it even harder.

We used to be able to dip into the academy and bring a player or two through. The academy has been torn to pieces and any player that does show promise, I feel our manager might not spend the time with them. 

I don't think league 2 will be anywhere near we end up but a stagnant league 1 club is a real possibility. 

 

Yes you could see us being another Portsmouth - everything that comes out of the club suggests there is a lack of talent behind the scenes .   

We have a CEO who has presided over failure, we recruit club coaches from ex players who live locally rather than looking far and wide for the best.  It's a continuation of the appoint Maclaren's son as head of recruitment school of running a business.

 

Our signings are players the manager knows from years back, we don't seem capable of uncovering a rough diamond from lower leagues or lads released from Premier League academies.   

 

The owner talks about his time supporting us in the 80s but you wonder if he realises the sport has moved on - there's nothing about his vision for the club.   Yes we want to be fiscally responsible but if we are to be a trading club we need to add value to players to sell on - what's the profit in any of our recent signings - yet we pocketed £1m for Plange after less than a season ?   

 

Listen to podcasts from staff at Brentford or Brighton and it's striking how innovative and forward thinking they are.   We seem to be stuck in the past - our plan for promotion was if we run them more in pre season we'll be fitter than the opposition - it's like sports science didn't exist.   

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I agree, that is a concern. He seems to be of the belief that his system will work and it will come good, which is one of my ongoing concerns with Paul Warne. He’s said (and shown at Rotherham) that he can be flexible tactically, he’s yet to convince me of that at Derby.

However that isn’t the point I was making. That interview does tell us there is some contingency planning of sorts taking place. So if things don’t improve under Warne, if he moves on for one reason or another, it does sound like Mark Thomas is working to a longer term vision with recruitment.

Who did his recruiting at Rotherham, maybe we have to accept that they were/are much better than the new bloke and Warne's old contacts? 

 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, trappatoni said:

The owner talks about his time supporting us in the 80s but you wonder if he realises the sport has moved on - there's nothing about his vision for the club.   Yes we want to be fiscally responsible but if we are to be a trading club we need to add value to players to sell on - what's the profit in any of our recent signings - yet we pocketed £1m for Plange after less than a season ?   

Listen to podcasts from staff at Brentford or Brighton and it's striking how innovative and forward thinking they are.   We seem to be stuck in the past - our plan for promotion was if we run them more in pre season we'll be fitter than the opposition - it's like sports science didn't exist.   

Ahhh 'innovative' I said that I'd like that from a manger way back when, and all I got was posters questioning the meaning of the word. I was thinking of Mac when he was with Jim, but also the Clubs history - first shirts ads, that sort of thing too. We are sooo League 1 in our thinking, and it seems now in our recruiting?

Edited August 24, 2023 by RoyMac5

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, 8Leeds said:

Our scouting hasn’t been particularly great for a long time, has it? 

What’s Simon Clough up to these days? 

People take the piss and used to moan like little bitches that he only had a job at the club cos he was nigels pro

but the fact of the matter is we havent recruited as well or as shrewdly since he was here 

[Caerphilly Ram]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Who did his recruiting at Rotherham, maybe we have to accept that they were/are much better than the new bloke and Warne's old contacts? 

 

According to his comments the other day about the cb we were “linked” with, he did. 
His recruitment at Rotherham did involve signing younger or peak age players, so I am intrigued as to what’s changed now. Is it Warne? Is it the market? Is it budget? Is it the EFL plan? Is it the recruitment committee? 
This week will be interesting. 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

According to his comments the other day about the cb we were “linked” with, he did. 
His recruitment at Rotherham did involve signing younger or peak age players, so I am intrigued as to what’s changed now. Is it Warne? Is it the market? Is it budget? Is it the EFL plan? Is it the recruitment committee? 
This week will be interesting. 

Yeah, I meant literally who were they. He agreed to sign players suggested to him by them I presume?

[Chopper]

It'll end how it always ends, I get into an argument with Mrs. Chopper because I wont move from Sky Sports News all night, even though from 8.30 I'm snoring my proverbials off, nothing. One last check of Twitter before I go to bed just in case, still nothing. I wake up at 3.30am, is it eager anticipation of a last minute deal or is it the bladder of a 40+ Male, who knows? Check Twitter one last time and we've sold my favourite player to someone I arrogantly feel is smaller, and we sign someone who I've vaguely heard of. 

I cry myself back to sleep.

[Anag Ram]

1 minute ago, Chopper said:

It'll end how it always ends, I get into an argument with Mrs. Chopper because I wont move from Sky Sports News all night, even though from 8.30 I'm snoring my proverbials off, nothing. One last check of Twitter before I go to bed just in case, still nothing. I wake up at 3.30am, is it eager anticipation of a last minute deal or is it the bladder of a 40+ Male, who knows? Check Twitter one last time and we've sold my favourite player to someone I arrogantly feel is smaller, and we sign someone who I've vaguely heard of. 

I cry myself back to sleep.

Don’t forget the 40 year old third choice keeper! We always like one of those 😊

[hintonsboots]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

TRIGGER WARNING - if anyone with an aversion to Paul Warne’s character or manner do listen to the attached be warned there are a number of Warne-isms which includes an illustrative example of a goalkeeper with no hands, a hypothetical discussion around agreeing a transfer with Marseille, a house selling analogy and at least one “quelle surprise” and “chill your beans”

That has really amused me. More Brentesque by the minute.

[Caerphilly Ram]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yeah, I meant literally who were they. He agreed to sign players suggested to him by them I presume?

I don’t know what the structure was at Rotherham. At the risk of leaning into some of the disparaging comparisons that float around occasionally, would a club of Rotherham’s size operate in the same way that Derby are currently set up? Or would it be a more old fashioned way of doing things, with Warne having a more singular role in the recruitment process? 

[Chellaston Ram]

Even his past recruitment of players other than ex Rotherham have been poor ie Springett, White, Osula

[RoyMac5]

28 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I don’t know what the structure was at Rotherham. At the risk of leaning into some of the disparaging comparisons that float around occasionally, would a club of Rotherham’s size operate in the same way that Derby are currently set up? Or would it be a more old fashioned way of doing things, with Warne having a more singular role in the recruitment process? 

I don't know, but they've stayed up last season for the first time in a while. It could be their recruitment team rather than Warne?

I want to be more positive but this summers recruitment has been ordinary, or the way they have been utilised is. Anyway I was hoping for more excitement than the one gained from fear, fear of losing our best players.

[i-Ram]

30 minutes ago, Chellaston Ram said:

Even his past recruitment of players other than ex Rotherham have been poor ie Springett, White, Osula

Osula was a Rosenior loan. Osula could have been very useful, but he was sparingly used by Warne, and Sheff Utd took him back. Now he's getting some run-outs in the Prem. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by i-Ram

[Curtains]

strange how all our recruits are being written off after 4 games .

Totally unjust 

[NottsRam77]

8 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Osula was a Rosenior loan. Osula could have been very useful, but he was sparingly used by Warne, and Sheff Utd took him back. Now he's getting some run-outs in the Prem. 

and hes yet to score a goal lol

joking aside i know what ur saying

But just cos hes getting played doesnt mean we made a bad call not playing him… more of a indikement as to how ill prepared sheff united are.

really hopeful that them or luton could break our record… shame theyre both uo there as it gives them both the chance at some points and that one win 

[SSD]

I know most people don't think style of play matters. I think for clubs looking to loan their best talent, I believe it does. Long gone are the days of, he needs experience so let's loan him out. Bigger clubs want to know their player will be playing a similar style of football, integrateing them with the first team. Do we really think we'd have got Osula and Dobbin because we want to be hitting 25-30 crosses a game? No. Why is that any good for their development. 

Also, Warne's honest policy of not promising players of starting matches is a massive hindrance for loans. Why would a club loan out a quality youngest when they may end up stuck on the bench (Springett) for the majority of the loan spell. They might as well keep them at their academy.

I don't think it's down to purely financial reasons. The front facing personnel need to take accountability too.

[i-Ram]

19 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

and hes yet to score a goal lol

joking aside i know what ur saying

But just cos hes getting played doesnt mean we made a bad call not playing him… more of a indikement as to how ill prepared sheff united are.

really hopeful that them or luton could break our record… shame theyre both uo there as it gives them both the chance at some points and that one win 

Osula was raw, still is, but he had pace and an eye for a shot and would/should have been someone to introduce regularly at about 60/65 minutes to scare a few tiring defenders. We could have done with him second half of the season, indeed anyone with even half an eye for goal, but we ended up with Springett, White and a bench keeper.

[NottsRam77]

18 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Osula was raw, still is, but he had pace and an eye for a shot and would/should have been someone to introduce regularly at about 60/65 minutes to scare a few tiring defenders. We could have done with him second half of the season, indeed anyone with even half an eye for goal, but we ended up with Springett, White and a bench keeper.

Agree, imo he would have been a very good option to have … this season too