Where's this new midfielder?

[Wolfie20]

1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said:

The fact we seem to be getting into an even bigger mess, week by week?

We're 3 games into a 46 game season - if we are in a similar situation say by the end of October then perhaps more fans will be sharing the same concerns as a few in here currently are.

Last Saturdays' win, although not a particularly exciting or controlled performance, nevertheless brought 3 points and a clean sheet  - surely less of "a mess" than the previous week? Granted no new players in but the window is still open.

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Which would be 69 points over a full season, good enough only for 9th place last season

I don’t say things are ideal but 4 games in is too early to judge 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

He gave Thompson a game and Rooney .

He is willing to change when necessary.

Bolton 0-4 Wigan suggests we are not that bad as we nearly beat Wigan apart from stupid mistakes .

Didn't he say he's getting/wants more midfielders and a RWB in though?

[duncanjwitham]

Just now, Wolfie20 said:

We're 3 games into a 46 game season - if we are in a similar situation say by the end of October then perhaps more fans will be sharing the same concerns as a few in here currently are.

Last Saturdays' win, although not a particularly exciting or controlled performance, nevertheless brought 3 points and a clean sheet  - surely less of "a mess" than the previous week? Granted no new players in but the window is still open.

Given that we've apparently wanted to play a back 3 since Warne got here, we've signed a load of players specifically to play it, we spent the whole of preseason practicing it...  The fact we had to almost completely abandon it after 4 games to get an even remotely acceptable performance isn't exactly a resounding sign that things are getting better.

And I'm yet to be convinced the solution to the "Warne signed a load of players that can't play his system" problem is "let Warne sign even more players" either.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Didn't he say he's getting/wants more midfielders and a RWB in though?

Thompson is ok but tires easily.  Rooney maybe the same 

He has a small squad 

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, Alty_Ram said:

I certainly get that and mostly agree but I think there is a mitigation for the slight impatience in our current situation.

I genuinely had no expectation last year. We had a march, the club had been saved at the 11th hour and we had a rookie manager who had to throw a team together of emergency signings, just to put a team out. Now we obviously almost got over the line and could have got promoted but I had no real expectation of that, far from it. We had some good players (Didzy was a joy to watch at times) but were unbalanced and lack obvious specialists in certain areas, never mind backups for those players.

I think though that finishing 7th puts a certain expectation on the next season to go one better though, particularly when there were noises about the EFL giving us more slack and there being a transfer budget to spend. I think that perhaps a few folk (not unreasonably) just expected that we'd kick on a bit this year, and I don't think that is 'entitled' or unrealistic. I totally get that injuries have seriously hampered us but some of the new signings have yet to convince and all round we look a bit ropey at this stage. Plenty of time yet of course but if we do want to be in the mix for playoffs then we can't afford fall too far off the pace.

Perhaps some fans were expecting a bit less, maybe another season of stabilisation as a rebuild continues but others like myself perhaps expected us to build on last year and be stronger and have a real pop at this. It felt like once we'd got over the disappointment of missing out on playoffs that we'd have a good summer and hit the ground running this year but for whatever reason we seem to have struggled a bit in terms of injuries, signings not materialising and some signings just struggling a little to bed in.

Maybe this stuttering start will help by resetting expectations a bit and allow us to get some players back/in and gradually build some real momentum as the season goes on. I just hoped that we'd come flying out of the traps and set the pace for once. My support hasn't dimmed whatsoever but perhaps I just hoped for a little more at this stage, that's all.

I could buy more into a rebuild process if we were getting youngsters in and some lower league players rather than the been there seen it done it players that we have got in

I wanted to see a young side with a bit of experience who would get us up and be given an oppurtunity in the championship but with the players we've signed so far all i see is another rebuild job next season if we are fortunate enough to go up

A couple of decent signings could still make a big difference of course but won't change the fact we'd have a big job on in the summer to sell and then add some better players if we were to get promoted hence why I thought we'd get some younger, more untried players in to develop them but I'm not entirely sure now PW is the right man to be doing this whereas as a Mac, a Warburton or even Rosenior I think would've been better choices , hopefully upcoming games will change my opinion we shall see

[jono]

5 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Rubbish - you stump up your money to be admitted to the games - that’s all. Believing that ‘we deserve’ anything else is all so much entitled ballcocks….

Of course you are right in that sense but from the clubs business perspective it is different .. encouraging and informing those paying supporters with sound information about the health of entity that they support has to be good “sales” promotion. The bulk of the customer profile are regular “buyers” it has to be right and businesslike to keep them happy ? 

[Walkley Ram]

24 minutes ago, Curtains said:

You have a real downer on Paul Warne mate .

Where does this stem from .

The club was in a mess so some patience is needed IMO .

 

Stems from watching what's happening in front of us. He's not the only one with genuine concerns with what we're seeing.

The club was in a mess, yes, but that excuse only lasts so long. We were arguably stronger and had a better side last season. How long until the position that we're in is the fault of the manager?

[Ghost of Clough]

15 minutes ago, Curtains said:

He gave Thompson a game and Rooney .

He is willing to change when necessary.

Bolton 0-4 Wigan suggests we are not that bad as we nearly beat Wigan apart from stupid mistakes .

He gave Thompson a start because he's openly stated he had no-one else to choose after than Smith and Hourihane. He was given just 194 minutes of league football last season, and has only ever played the full 90 twice under Warne (FA Cup games - the 5-0 win over Torquay and 1-0 defeat to Coventry).

Similar for Rooney. He's never been trusted to play the full 90 in back to back games, and has only been given the equivalent to 7.3 league games.

Warne has broken promises made to players regarding involvement in the first team.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, oodledoodle said:

Stems from watching what's happening in front of us. He's not the only one with genuine concerns with what we're seeing.

The club was in a mess, yes, but that excuse only lasts so long. We were arguably stronger and had a better side last season. How long until the position that we're in is the fault of the manager?

So when Warne was brought to the club I didn’t hear much sympathy for Rosenior 

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

He gave Thompson a start because he's openly stated he had no-one else to choose after than Smith and Hourihane. He was given just 194 minutes of league football last season, and has only ever played the full 90 twice under Warne (FA Cup games - the 5-0 win over Torquay and 1-0 defeat to Coventry).

Similar for Rooney. He's never been trusted to play the full 90 in back to back games, and has only been given the equivalent to 7.3 league games.

Warne has broken promises made to players regarding involvement in the first team.

Sorry I can’t except that. 
If they do enough in training they are in. 
I’ve advocated Rooney all along but accept he couldn’t last 46 games and neither could Thompson.  
The manager isn’t victimising anyone. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Curtains
Spelled

[Blondest Goat]

23 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

His short term approach to team selection and transfers. His tactics on the pitch which typically results in a less than entertaining performance on the pitch (more entertaining if you were a neutral watching our games), his lack in ability to spot what is the issue(s) on the pitch, his stubbornness to move away from what isn't working. The long term impact on our academy, stemming from his reluctance to trust and give opportunities to young players. The destruction of the togetherness and feel good factor around the club ever since his apppointment.

Nit-picking 

[Walkley Ram]

6 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So when Warne was brought to the club I didn’t hear much sympathy for Rosenior 

Really? I thought the general consensus was that he was very unlucky not to have been given more time. Nowhere near perfect, but promising signs were there.

I don't take any pleasure in thinking Warne isn't good enough. But I'm waiting patiently for evidence otherwise. And no, grinding out a 1-0 win at home to Fleetwood isn't it.

[duncanjwitham]

6 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Nit-picking 

So Warne having problems with transfers, team selection, tactics, in-game management and player development are all "nit-picking"? What do you actually think a managers job is, if none of that stuff is important?

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, oodledoodle said:

Really? I thought the general consensus was that he was very unlucky not to have been given more time. Nowhere near perfect, but promising signs were there.

I don't take any pleasure in thinking Warne isn't good enough. But I'm waiting patiently for evidence otherwise. And no, grinding out a 1-0 win at home to Fleetwood isn't it.

Maybe next 2 away games will persuade you 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Curtains

[Walkley Ram]

I hope they do. Honestly.

[Curtains]

Just now, duncanjwitham said:

So Warne having problems with transfers, team selection, tactics, in-game management and player development are all "nit-picking"? What do you actually think a managers job is, if none of that stuff is important?

It is unfounded and unsubstantiated what you just said. 

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

It is unfounded and unsubstantiated what you just said. 

What exactly is "unfounded and unsubstantiated"?  We're not talking about random internet rumours, it's stuff we can literally see happening on the pitch in front of us.

[Ghost of Clough]

13 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So when Warne was brought to the club I didn’t hear much sympathy for Rosenior 

Comments from the time of his appointment: https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/40370-rosenior-or-warne/#comments

Another thread shortly after, questioning how many players actually suit Warne's preferred system: https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/40375-which-players-fit-a-paul-warne-team/#comments

This is 1 month into his time as manager, where a number of concerns were raised by several posters. Those concerns either remain, or have already become reality: https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/40530-warnes-managerial-start-at-rotherham-it-wasnt-very-good/

 

11 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Sorry I can’t except that. 
If they do enough in training they are in. 
I’ve advocated Rooney all along but except he couldn’t las 46 games and neither could Thompson.  
The manager isn’t victimising anyone. 

Thompson in particular has impressed when used this season, only to be on the bench in the following game at the expense of an underperforming 'senior player'. Thompson has never come across as the type to let his standards drop in training.

I haven't said either player should be starting every game, but they should have been used much more last season, especially when the rest of the team was severely fatigued. 194 minutes of league football for Thompson last season was pathetic man-management of the player and the squad, which resulted in him going to the first club he could get a loan to late in the season to for some game time.

9 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Nit-picking 

These are massive areas of concern, not just 'we should try passing the ball a bit more'

[MadAmster]

Some have commented on getting younger players in. I presume they mean players in their mid to late 20s. An age group PW spoke about, extensively, last season. Might those players be out of our current budgetary restrictions and that is why we haven't brought them in?