Should we be patient? If so, how does it improve?

[TomTom92]

Just now, Jourdan said:

Well he has given Warne a four year contract.

Why does he have to come out and do or say anything publicly?

Have you not seen the comments on here and twitter? I know they don’t represent the whole fanbase but the tide in my opinion seems to be changing against Warne as the matches go by. 
 
The toxicity isn’t going to magically go away. So either it gets spelled out that promotion could take 4 seasons and DC is happy with that or he says nowt and the heat continues to get turned up on Warne and the squad.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Jourdan said:

I think most if not all managers know what a big club Derby are.

However if you are looking at things at the moment, would it look like an enticing and attractive job to walk into?

You bet, I might not get another chance. Isn't that why Warne is here?

[hintonsboots]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

Well he has given Warne a four year contract.

Why does he have to come out and do or say anything publicly?

Exactly. We have played a load of dross so far this season, apart from a slight improvement second half v a poor Burton side. With Ward injured surely 352 will be abandoned. There is a huge disconnect at present between the midfield 3 and the front 2, with NML not a striker anyway, and Bird ( now injured) or Hourihane need to play almost in a No 10 role, much further forward. If Warne can get a different system going 433 for example, results will improve, but for me it’s the lack of watchable exciting football that is missing.

[May Contain Nuts]

20 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Have you not seen the comments on here and twitter? I know they don’t represent the whole fanbase but the tide in my opinion seems to be changing against Warne as the matches go by. 
 
The toxicity isn’t going to magically go away. So either it gets spelled out that promotion could take 4 seasons and DC is happy with that or he says nowt and the heat continues to get turned up on Warne and the squad.

 

...or Warne has a tactical epiphany and in a month's time people go back to blowing smoke up his arse? 😄😉

There's still time for him to correct course, unlikely as it seems.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[TomTom92]

Just now, Kokosnuss said:

 

...or Warne has a tactical epiphany and in a month's time people go back to blowing smoke up his arse? 😄

There's still time for him to correct course, unlikely as it seems.

Agreed but I just can’t see it happening. 
 
Especially with Bolton and Posh smelling blood.

[Jourdan]

18 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Have you not seen the comments on here and twitter? I know they don’t represent the whole fanbase but the tide in my opinion seems to be changing against Warne as the matches go by. 
 
The toxicity isn’t going to magically go away. So either it gets spelled out that promotion could take 4 seasons and DC is happy with that or he says nowt and the heat continues to get turned up on Warne and the squad.

I realise how toxic things are becoming. The magic formula is better results and better, more cohesive football.

Clowes coming out and saying promotion could take four seasons wouldn’t help matters one iota.

Why?

It would just lead to people saying we have a useless manager and a useless owner.

[Barney1991]

2 hours ago, MadAmster said:

All true. Oxford's 2 goals saw Harris (#9) getting where he wanted to be without having a Derby player anywhere near him. Almost as if he had been invisible, nobody aware of where a good goal scorer was. Shouldn't happen. 

we were practicing social distancing for the first goal 

[TomTom92]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I realise how toxic things are becoming. The magic formula is better results and better, more cohesive football.

Clowes coming out and saying promotion could take four seasons wouldn’t help matters one iota.

Why?

It would just lead to people saying we have a useless manager and a useless owner.

So we beat Fleetwood and then lose our next 2. We’ll still be in exactly the same place morale wise if not worse. 
 
Hopefully Warne turns it around. But I think it’s gonna take more than win a couple, draw a couple and lose a couple for fans to ease off. The knives are out and ready to be used.

[Barney1991]

34 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Well he has given Warne a four year contract.

Why does he have to come out and do or say anything publicly?

Because if he came out and said anything about taking 4 years to get out of league 1 you can kiss goodbye to over 20,000 season ticket holders. 

[TomTom92]

2 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

Because if he came out and said anything about taking 4 years to get out of league 1 you can kiss goodbye to over 20,000 season ticket holders. 

Season ticket sales are going to drop anyway if Warne carries on like this for another 43 matches.

[We'll be back in 81]

The way I see it is PW wants to play 5 at the back and has used pre season to put it into practice but does not have a left wing back and the three centre backs are not gelling as hoped so until he gets a proper lwb it will not work.

 Therefore for now needs to play four at the back, a 442 with either Wilson or Rooney at right back the other right wing with Ward injured with Elder left back and NML on the wing. Cashin with either Nelson or Fozzy at centre back. Could do with a couple of Craig Brysons of old in midfield and Washington alongside either Collins or Waghorn up front. Centre of midfield is a concern, not mobile enough over a long period and we need two out and out strikers to give us a better chance of scoring with all the crosses coming in. I wish it was that simple to sort out. Good luck to the coaching staff to get it right for Saturday.

[Carnero]

15 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

Exactly. We have played a load of dross so far this season, apart from a slight improvement second half v a poor Burton side. With Ward injured surely 352 will be abandoned. There is a huge disconnect at present between the midfield 3 and the front 2, with NML not a striker anyway, and Bird ( now injured) or Hourihane need to play almost in a No 10 role, much further forward. If Warne can get a different system going 433 for example, results will improve, but for me it’s the lack of watchable exciting football that is missing.

Agree with every word of this, for Saturday (assuming injuries) I'd go with

                    Vickers

Rooney  Nelson  Cashin  Forsyth

           Smith       Thompson

NML           Hourihane       Washington

                       Collins

(Waghorn to come on for one of the midfield at half time when we're 0-2 down 🤣)

[Caerphilly Ram]

14 hours ago, Barney1991 said:

Because if he came out and said anything about taking 4 years to get out of league 1 you can kiss goodbye to over 20,000 season ticket holders. 

 

14 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

Season ticket sales are going to drop anyway if Warne carries on like this for another 43 matches.

I get the frustrations with Warne at the moment, I get people wanting some clarity from Clowes, but doesn’t this one specific point ignore the fact Clowes gave an interview last season in which he said it could take time and the plan is to be established in the championship within a 5 year period. Take a year off that and you’ve got the 4 years you’re discussing.

It’s not pretty at the moment, people are unhappy, however I don’t see why Clowes should come out and reiterate an expectation he’s already publicly stated. If you want to read it for yourselves it’s in this digital magazine, the quote I’m referring to is on page 23 and says;

“Within 5 years we want to be established in the championship, and then perhaps thinking of the next steps. But the most important thing, above everything else, is just to have a healthy and stable football club.”

https://heyzine.com/flip-book/8867b12b48.html#page/23

Clowes intention has seemingly always been a patient one, he knows it’s going to take time, and as much as he’s spoken about budgets good enough for promotion he’s also tempered expectations in the same breath by saying words along the lines of “but nothing is guaranteed in football”.
So in summary I think he’s planning on being patient, his expectations have always been linked to being established back in the championship in the next 5 (now 4) years, and the club is still in theory within his expected timeframe. The difference is whether performances/results improve enough for fans to be patient too. I wouldn’t fancy being David Clowes and wanting to stick to my values and principles along with the very clear expectations I’ve set when several thousand people aren’t on that same page.

[duncanjwitham]

10 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

It’s not pretty at the moment, people are unhappy, however I don’t see why Clowes should come out and reiterate an expectation he’s already publicly stated. If you want to read it for yourselves it’s in this digital magazine, the quote I’m referring to is on page 23 and says;

“Within 5 years we want to be established in the championship, and then perhaps thinking of the next steps. But the most important thing, above everything else, is just to have a healthy and stable football club.”

Does anybody actually think that means spend 4 years in League one then get promoted though?  I've always taken that to mean go up within the first 2, or maybe 3, years and then spend 2 or 3 years getting established in the championship - i.e. building a comfortable top half squad so we can kick on.  The longer we spend at this level, the harder it is going to be to get out of it.

[brady1993]

Personally I wouldn't be patient but I'm of the opinion that'd I've let Warne go at the end of last season and these few games haven't really moved the needle on my opinion.

With that said I do suspect we will improve from where we are right now and probably end up somewhere inside the top 10 if Warne gets a full season. But I'm operating under the caveat that Warne eventually flexes some part of his ethos. The only thing that conflicts with that and really niggles me (beyond my concerns from last season) is that he starting to blame things on factors that are either external or not the problem, which is often a sign of someone who's ran out of ideas.

[Caerphilly Ram]

Just now, duncanjwitham said:

Does anybody actually think that means spend 4 years in League one then get promoted though?  I've always taken that to mean go up within the first 2, or maybe 3, years and then spend 2 or 3 years getting established in the championship - i.e. building a comfortable top half squad so we can kick on.  The longer we spend at this level, the harder it is going to be to get out of it.

I agree with your take on it, 2 or 3 years in league one, leaving 3 or 2 years establishing ourselves in the championship. Still within the 5 year expectation Clowes has set and publicly shared, so whilst people can be unhappy with the way we’re playing and the transfer dealings etc, as is there right, I was just highlighting that Clowes has said what he expects from the club where a couple of posters were discussing the potential need for him to come out and say something. He already has, it’s up to us as individuals to decide if we can accept those expectations or not, I just don’t see why Clowes should have to say it again louder for those at the back 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[TomTom92]

14 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

 

I get the frustrations with Warne at the moment, I get people wanting some clarity from Clowes, but doesn’t this one specific point ignore the fact Clowes gave an interview last season in which he said it could take time and the plan is to be established in the championship within a 5 year period. Take a year off that and you’ve got the 4 years you’re discussing.

It’s not pretty at the moment, people are unhappy, however I don’t see why Clowes should come out and reiterate an expectation he’s already publicly stated. If you want to read it for yourselves it’s in this digital magazine, the quote I’m referring to is on page 23 and says;

“Within 5 years we want to be established in the championship, and then perhaps thinking of the next steps. But the most important thing, above everything else, is just to have a healthy and stable football club.”

https://heyzine.com/flip-book/8867b12b48.html#page/23

Clowes intention has seemingly always been a patient one, he knows it’s going to take time, and as much as he’s spoken about budgets good enough for promotion he’s also tempered expectations in the same breath by saying words along the lines of “but nothing is guaranteed in football”.
So in summary I think he’s planning on being patient, his expectations have always been linked to being established back in the championship in the next 5 (now 4) years, and the club is still in theory within his expected timeframe. The difference is whether performances/results improve enough for fans to be patient too. I wouldn’t fancy being David Clowes and wanting to stick to my values and principles along with the very clear expectations I’ve set when several thousand people aren’t on that same page.

Fair point.

Personally i take established as us having been in the championship for 1 maybe 2 seasons which cuts the timeframe in half. But yes i agree, if he keeps schtum having believed that the interview above sufficiently covers his expectations then i can't see how the atmosphere around the club will get better. Unless Warne turns it around.

If Warne does stay until the end of the season but misses out on play offs then DC is gonna have big kahunas to stick with him. Alternatively if he gets the chop then expectations from the fans will rise with the appointment of hopefully an exciting candidate. 

Wouldn't want to be in  DC shoes at all.

[brady1993]

1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said:

Does anybody actually think that means spend 4 years in League one then get promoted though?  I've always taken that to mean go up within the first 2, or maybe 3, years and then spend 2 or 3 years getting established in the championship - i.e. building a comfortable top half squad so we can kick on.  The longer we spend at this level, the harder it is going to be to get out of it.

If Clowes was happy to sit in League 1 for 4 years there isn't a chance in hell he'd shuttled out Rosenior last year and replaced him with someone who's supposed primary selling point is getting out of league 1.

If he was happy to take time in League 1 he could have let things play out for a year with Rosenior, seeing if it clicked and all the well get the behind the scenes infrastructure right and beginning to really scout for the best fit for the job. All the messaging even by Warne has been with an eye on a relatively fast promotion.

[duncanjwitham]

11 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I agree with your take on it, 2 or 3 years in league one, leaving 3 or 2 years establishing ourselves in the championship. Still within the 5 year expectation Clowes has set and publicly shared, so whilst people can be unhappy with the way we’re playing and the transfer dealings etc, as is there right, I was just highlighting that Clowes has said what he expects from the club where a couple of posters were discussing the potential need for him to come out and say something. He already has, it’s up to us as individuals to decide if we can accept those expectations or not, I just don’t see why Clowes should have to say it again louder for those at the back 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

I suppose the counter argument is that "going up in 2 or 3 years" would imply the need for some element of relatively quick improvement.  If we were to finish lower than last year, then it makes going up in 2 or 3 years very difficult. There's also the aspect of monitoring performance against the stated plan.  We obviously aren't intending to just wait 5 years and then see if we are established in the championship, there has to be some degree of ongoing evaluation.  And at this (admittedly very early) stage, there's no sign of improvement (in fact things seem to be getting worse) and we look way off track to meet the stated goals.

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 minute ago, duncanjwitham said:

I suppose the counter argument is that "going up in 2 or 3 years" would imply the need for some element of relatively quick improvement.  If we were to finish lower than last year, then it makes going up in 2 or 3 years very difficult. There's also the aspect of monitoring performance against the stated plan.  We obviously aren't intending to just wait 5 years and then see if we are established in the championship, there has to be some degree of ongoing evaluation.  And at this (admittedly very early) stage, there's no sign of improvement (in fact things seem to be getting worse) and we look way off track to meet the stated goals.

I agree once more, but we’re not yet at that point. For the fans it’s all bleak and not looking good, Clowes has to have a bit more of a rationale perspective on it and weigh it up. If after 10-15 games it’s looking really bleak then he probably will act. There is still plenty of time for Warne to turn it around, I know many are questioning whether he will or even can, but I just don’t think from what he’s stated publicly so far that Clowes will feel as impatient with the process as some fans do. 
I’m not questioning those fans for their views or opinions, I just have come to my own conclusions on how I think Clowes will still afford Warne some time based on what he’s said previously.