Comrade 86 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, Gritstone Ram said: Doesn’t that law state they should seek asylum in the first safe country they get to? Not when they've already pitched up on our shores. Did any Ukrainians travel through other countries, or did they all charter private jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: Linekar's an idiot who has made stupid comments in the past. But being an idiot, even an idiot in public, does not warrant a suspension from hosting football programmes. In fact, I'd be more surprised if Gary did come out with a complex legal and philosophical analysis of refugees than a ham-fisted 'we're becoming nazis' tweetsode. I'm just more surprised why anyone is in the slightest bit bothered or interested in what he said. It's been good fun reading this thread tho init? Comrade 86 and Leeds Ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 44 minutes ago, The Last Post said: Did we have far right politicians in the 20s, Just thought they were a bunch of upper class cnts You do know I was talking about the 2020s? Your point works equally well now. Ram-Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, i-Ram said: Are people turning up on our shores in boats from a safe areas like France, lawfully or unlawfully seeking protection do you think? Well that's the point isn't it? If you immediately ship them off to Rwanda, without discourse or right to appeal, your assertion becomes entirely moot since there's no way to determine those rightfully seeking asylum, from the mass hordes of drug dealers wanting to flog you cheap crack. I wouldn't concern yourself too much anyway, old chap. Those pesky Albanians favour city digs over retirement homes. HorsforthRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 So there *are* some brains in the Tories at the moment... ariotofmyown, HorsforthRam, Bob The Badger and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Well that's the point isn't it? If you immediately ship them off to Rwanda, without discourse or right to appeal, your assertion becomes entirely moot since there's no way to determine those rightfully seeking asylum, from the mass hordes of drug dealers wanting to flog you cheap crack. I wouldn't concern yourself too much anyway, old chap. Those pesky Albanians favour city digs over retirement homes. I'm not going to concern myself anyway. As @Bob The Badger will guide me, unless I have been shipped across the channel in a dinghy, or sat in a Dover Detention Centre, there is no way I am going to ever have a proper understanding of international law anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said: So there *are* some brains in the Tories at the moment... Ruddy hell not back bencher Tobias Ellwood lobbying the government again. Last I heard he dictated western/NATO policy. The government will do whatever he tells them to do, I’m sure! Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Well that's the point isn't it? If you immediately ship them off to Rwanda, without discourse or right to appeal, your assertion becomes entirely moot since there's no way to determine those rightfully seeking asylum, from the mass hordes of drug dealers wanting to flog you cheap crack. I wouldn't concern yourself too much anyway, old chap. Those pesky Albanians favour city digs over retirement homes. .... but just to be clear, if their asylum application is considered, and their appeal is rejected, then the UK would be fully within their rights to repatriate unlawful asylum seeks to a safe country, yes? Just want to check you being such a stickler on international law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, The Last Post said: It's been good fun reading this thread tho init? haha it's been a wild ride just on the last page. My two pence is that the refugee convention and the 67 protocol were not designed, so people fleeing had an a la carte option of where they wanted to go. The universality of the 67 protocol was put in place so countries couldn't sneakily get rid of refugees to other countries who'd then send them back. I believe the first safe state principle was articulated in the Dublin agreement, which remains sensible but has since 2015 come under increasing pressure. From memory, I also thought both the 51 and 67 protocols also restricted refugee status from those who did try to select their country of 'safe origin' by crossing borders, but a brief re-read of the 51 convention has made me think my memory was faulty (it has been about 8 years since I've read these docs for my human rights seminars). Ultimately our judicial and political systems are unwilling to really grapple with the issue. It's an absolute mess that we've helped create, by eliminating easy and safe ways to claim asylum this is why we've got the boat problem. This is not to say that all those in calais are legitimate refugees, they are not, but we have made it incredibly difficult for refugees to seek asylum here. Ideally, we should be clamping down on the boats, but we also need to quickly open asylum application centres in France. We should also be encouraging people to seek asylum in France whilst relaxing our FOM restrictions as well. ariotofmyown and Ram-Alf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said: This is the trick isn't it? The UK has seemingly put the brakes (to put it mildly) on processing asylum applications. A backlog of 117k applications. Compare that to previous years from https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-uks-asylum-backlog/ We have an obligation under international law to house these people while their applications are assessed - hence the proliferation of "migrant hotels" - which understandably riles hard-working British nationals when they see this being reported by media outlets (who know how lucrative that anger can be for their ad-click revenue). But if we actually turned asylum applications around in a functional timescale, then people either get granted asylum and become fellow British citizens or they get rejected and removed. No migrant hotels, no crisis, just a functioning process This is ALL deliberate by this government. All of it The hotels thing riles some but the real question is how/ where do we house these people when we have what I will call a housing crisis in this country and have had for a long time , now that’s the REAL issue Edited March 13, 2023 by Archied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 17 minutes ago, i-Ram said: I'm not going to concern myself anyway. As @Bob The Badger will guide me, unless I have been shipped across the channel in a dinghy, or sat in a Dover Detention Centre, there is no way I am going to ever have a proper understanding of international law anyway. Woo-hoo you're back! Well thank the Lord, I was getting concerned. I could only presume when you said you were withdrawing from the thread you meant you were withdrawing from the thread. I'm so glad I misunderstood and it would be a delight and a privilege to guide you mate. Where are we going? I'm not very good with maps. Comrade 86 and Stive Pesley 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Great news, I missed Gary and Co on Saturday night. How are you feeling @Tyler Durden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, i-Ram said: .... but just to be clear, if their asylum application is considered, and their appeal is rejected, then the UK would be fully within their rights to repatriate unlawful asylum seeks to a safe country, yes? Just want to check you being such a stickler on international law. I think any non-legals should be strapped to one of Musky's rockets and fired into the sun. That is unless they happen to sell crack for a living, as I find it quite moreish. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: I think any non-legals should be strapped to one of Musky's rockets and fired into the sun. That is unless they happen to sell crack for a living, as I find it quite moreish. Hope this helps! It helps greatly. I expected you not to answer. I wouldn't be surprised to see the thread closed quickly now either. If you hurry you might beat Stive to it today. Anon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 11 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: Woo-hoo you're back! Well thank the Lord, I was getting concerned. I could only presume when you said you were withdrawing from the thread you meant you were withdrawing from the thread. I'm so glad I misunderstood and it would be a delight and a privilege to guide you mate. Where are we going? I'm not very good with maps. Thanks for your concern. Like Gary, it's nice to be back. Bob The Badger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, i-Ram said: It helps greatly. I expected you not to answer. And the whole world expected you to reappear despite your theatrical flounce of yesterday evening. You didn't disappoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: And the whole world expected you to reappear despite your theatrical flounce of yesterday evening. You didn't disappoint. The whole world? Really? Unlike you to exaggerate for effect. You will be pleased that my posting won't bother you for a few hours now. Got AmDram Club this afternoon, and must also remember to pick up my dress from the cleaners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Archied said: The hotels thing riles some but the real question is how/ where do we house these people when we have what I will call a housing crisis in this country and have had for a long time , now that’s the REAL issue No - that's just another part of the problem, and another valid reason for people to be unhappy about hotels full of asylum seekers. The real issue remains that this government have, to all intents and purposes, stopped processing asylum applications - and the language they are using about the situation is deliberately designed to make people think the issue is the asylum seekers themselves. It really isn't ariotofmyown and HorsforthRam 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorsforthRam Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Ukrainians didn’t have to make the perilous journey on a small boat across the channel. If they wanted to come here, the had a route to apply whilst still in Ukraine or in another country having gotten out. They didn’t necessarily have to just stop in Poland (though a lot have). We host a family that came from Kiev, have got jobs here and the kids are at school. Now they are potentially going to Canada. They have application processes available to them that are not available to refugees from other places around the world. Stive Pesley, Comrade 86, i-Ram and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 46 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said: Ukrainians didn’t have to make the perilous journey on a small boat across the channel. If they wanted to come here, the had a route to apply whilst still in Ukraine or in another country having gotten out. They didn’t necessarily have to just stop in Poland (though a lot have). We host a family that came from Kiev, have got jobs here and the kids are at school. Now they are potentially going to Canada. They have application processes available to them that are not available to refugees from other places around the world. Yup - I have friends in Loughborough who did the same, their kids have left home so they took in 2 Ukrainians. Govt paid my friends to house them. They were fast-tracked for job interviews at Severn Trent and fully trained up - based on where ST had skills shortages. So no one try and tell me the country is full and we can't afford to take in refugees because it's simply not true HorsforthRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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