Gary Lineker

[Bob The Badger]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

I respect your opinion. But (I think) you are relatively young.

Irrespective of how disgusting the policy might be (and again that is a personal opinion), Lineker has made a crass comment regarding it, comparing it similar ‘in language’ to 1930’s Germany. Not only is that insensitive to the Jewish community in particular, I think many who lost friends and family in the subsequent war have found it a pretty offensive comparison too. The proposed policy, and even the language used, is nothing like what was fermenting in 1930’s Germany. My opinion, again for what it is worth, is that Lineker should be free to say what he thinks, but not without consequences to his contractual relationship with the BBC, and that on this matter in particular he has been offensive to a great many.

I am still waiting for even one poster on here to give me examples of language being used by politicians over here that are not too dissimilar to that being used by Adolf and his cohorts in the lead up to WW2.

Pay attention mate.

Straight from the mouth of a Holocaust survivor.

I suspect she has more of an inside track on this than you do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64282961

[Comrade 86]

Suella Braverman faces backlash over claim 'billions' of people are trying to reach UK

"There are 100 million people displaced around the world, and likely billions more eager to come here if possible."

"Arrive illegally and you will be liable for detention."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/suella-braverman-billions-enter-britain/

Suella Braverman confronted by Holocaust survivor over 'invasion' rhetoric

The home secretary has said she will not apologise for her language, after a Holocaust survivor criticised her for describing migrants as an "invasion".

In footage of the exchange, provided by the charity Freedom from Torture, Ms Salter said: "When I hear you using words against refugees like 'swarms' and an 'invasion', I am reminded of the language used to dehumanise and justify the murder of my family and millions of others.

"Why do you find the need to use that kind of language?"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64282961

[ariotofmyown]

59 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

 

Thread closed.

[Bob The Badger]

3 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Thread closed.

I saw that on FB earlier and meant to go and look for the video to post here and forgot!

He absolutely ducking nails it.

[G STAR RAM]

25 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Suella Braverman faces backlash over claim 'billions' of people are trying to reach UK

"There are 100 million people displaced around the world, and likely billions more eager to come here if possible."

"Arrive illegally and you will be liable for detention."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/suella-braverman-billions-enter-britain/

Suella Braverman confronted by Holocaust survivor over 'invasion' rhetoric

The home secretary has said she will not apologise for her language, after a Holocaust survivor criticised her for describing migrants as an "invasion".

In footage of the exchange, provided by the charity Freedom from Torture, Ms Salter said: "When I hear you using words against refugees like 'swarms' and an 'invasion', I am reminded of the language used to dehumanise and justify the murder of my family and millions of others.

"Why do you find the need to use that kind of language?"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64282961

Fair play to an 83 year old who can remember the language used by the Nazis before she was even born.

Think that has firmly put @i-Ramin his place.

Edited March 12, 2023 by G STAR RAM

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Not what I found. 

"why don't they just stop in the first safe country they reach??"

 

oh... nearly all of them do. Awkward

 

 

[Comrade 86]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Fair play to an 83 year old who can remember the language used by the Nazis before she was even born.

Think that has firmly put @i-Ramin his place.

The ones who were there are dead. That's kind of the point of genocide. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by 86 Hair Islands
Because I'm not allowed to call people thick t****

[Stive Pesley]

Back of the net

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

The ones who were there are dead. That's kind of the point of genocide. 

I think the debate was @i-Ramasking how the language used regarding this latest policy bore any resemblance to language used in 1930s Germany.

The poster then linked an article to an article where a woman in 1940 had criticised Suella Bravermans language. 

 

[cstand]

6 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Back of the net

Agreed time to scrap the license fee.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Back of the net

Why does it have to be one or another? Are we not capable of thinking about more than one issue at a time?

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

The poster then linked an article to an article where a woman in 1940 had criticised Suella Bravermans language. 

WTF are you on about? ?

[G STAR RAM]

33 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

WTF are you on about? ?

Sorry, should have said:-

The poster then linked an article to where a woman born in 1940 had criticised Suella Bravermans language. 

 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Of course not. But it's the toxic tone of many in government over the last 10 years or so. Demonise "others" wherever possible. That is similar to 30s Germany.

And demonising others has left the country in a right mess now. So let's double down on it.

It's all the fault of the boat people!!!

Hopefully only year left of this grim period and we can start to have a little humanity return.

A bit like covid then ,, labour in oppo were no better / maybe worse

[PistoldPete]

41 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Back of the net

I haven't listened to John Barnes but on the allegation that BBC picks and chooses on impartiality that I think is not entirely true... although of course BBC should have editorial control. There was a bit of fuss made about Emily Maitlis being criticised, but she didn't suffer any disciplinary action at all from BBC. In fact Ofcom also found breach of impartiality by her, so not just BBC internal rules  but Ofcom rules as well. Yet still according to her it was BBC bowing to Tory pressure, but this was not not true at all.

In Lineker's case he is not a news presenter so there is a lower bar. Against that, he is very closely associated with the BBC in a way that Alan Sugar is not. BBC hired Sugar to be the British equivalent of Trump in the Apprentice so they can hardly try stopping him from being what they hired him for. Andrew Neill is another example quoted , but he appeared in shows with Dianne Abbott so they could balance out any perception of bias. BBC do not try and control what Dianne Abbott says , I don't think Dianne Abbott controls what Dianne Abbott says.

 

 

      

[i-Ram]

2 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

Pay attention mate.

Straight from the mouth of a Holocaust survivor.

I suspect she has more of an inside track on this than you do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64282961

Reading this, it seems someone simply has a problem with the word invasion - an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place. I had better be a bit more careful using that word in the future then ? Oh and trafficked and transported. Better avoid those too.  It’s a minefield. Minefield, hang on a minute is that ok? Yeah, I think so. It’s a minefield.
The problem is fast becoming that anyone and everyone now seems to be finding indignation, and wants to point fingers, and label people, on the basis of a single word. Context no longer seems to apply. I am going to withdraw from this thread before I use inappropriate single words. Enjoy it guys, until it is closed.

[Tamworthram]

3 hours ago, FindernRam said:

If it was like that I would be more sympathetic, but in all of the coverage the vast majority of people on the boats are young men. Not families. Also it appears that a huge percentage are from Albania (a European country last time I looked).

In pure logistics terms; legal or not we had 500,000 net immigrants last year. That is effectively 5 new towns the size of Chester. There has to be a limit.

It all depends on whether we get accurate reporting in the press. Those supporting a clamp down will emphasise the number of single young men. Those apposing greater restrictions will focus on the number of young families. The reality, I guess, is that there is a good mixture of both.

In any event, I'm not debating whether we should be sympathetic or not, just trying to understand their motivation. Why are these people so desperate to risk their lives crossing the channel in woefully unsuitable boats? Is the support and opportunities available in continental countries so much worse?

The logistics is of course a major concern but isn't the figure you have quoted total net immigration (legal, including students and those from Ukraine, and illegal)? With regard to "illegal" immigration, it must be much worse in the rest of Europe. I'm sure only a trickle reach our shores. 

[Comrade 86]

29 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sorry, should have said:-

The poster then linked an article to where a woman born in 1940 had criticised Suella Bravermans language. 

Not sure why you are suggesting that anyone would need to be present at the rallies to offer valid and / or factual commentary? There's buildings full of film records of speeches from the period, millions of documents transcribed and saved for display in museums and the like, likewise banners and posters. History gets recorded and who would be better informed than the offspring of those who were taken to the camps anyway, bar said historians? Are you suggesting this woman is not credible as that's getting disturbingly close to holocaust denial territory, is it not? 

FWIW, the Nazi's weren't 'goosestepping about' shouting kill the Juden right from the off. That's the whole point. It was much more insidious than that, but still constituted politics of hate. This is the point made by Lineker, whether you choose to acknowledge the fact or not.

Here's a the first few links from a Google search, but there are 10s of thousands of sources for relevant material should you wish to DYOR. 

https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibliography/nazi-propaganda-1

https://exhibitions.ushmm.org/propaganda

https://www.dw.com/en/how-the-nazis-used-poster-art-as-propaganda/a-55751640

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43965202

Edited March 12, 2023 by 86 Hair Islands
typo

[Archied]

4 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Reading this, it seems someone simply has a problem with the word invasion - an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place. I had better be a bit more careful using that word in the future then ? Oh and trafficked and transported. Better avoid those too.  It’s a minefield. Minefield, hang on a minute is that ok? Yeah, I think so. It’s a minefield.
The problem is fast becoming that anyone and everyone now seems to be finding indignation, and wants to point fingers, and label people, on the basis of a single word. Context no longer seems to apply. I am going to withdraw from this thread before I use inappropriate single words. Enjoy it guys, until it is closed.

Guys !!!!!!!!!!!!

[PistoldPete]

This from the BBC's own website
 

"There are also others who are not journalists or involved in factual programming who nevertheless have an additional responsibility to the BBC because of their profile on the BBC.

"We expect these individuals to avoid taking sides on party political issues or political controversies and to take care when addressing public policy matters."
 

So Lineker still not guilty then? I don't think there is any doubt he is in breach it is just a matter of what is a proportionate response from the BBC.