Gary Lineker

[Ramarena]

49 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

As far as I am aware, the arguments used by Sunak and Braverman are that people coming here without permission are jumping the queue and that isn’t fair on those people that came here by legtitmate means, like for instance the Sunak and Braverman families. 
 

That seems to me a perfectly fair point. Whether their solution is the best one is another matter, I am not qualified to judge on that. Neither is Lineker of course. 
 

But where racists or xenophobia come into it I don’t know. Ironic that people like Lineker are upset about calling illegal immigrants what they are. Not so worried about calling people racists or Nazis. 

Not sure you can compare the Sunak and Braverman families who potentially emigrated as economic migrants and commonwealth citizens during the 60’s, with people today fleeing places like Ukraine, Afghanistan, Sudan, Syria, etc.

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

why do you think it’s ok to dismiss the justified concerns of ordinary decent people if you can point to a more extreme group that tags on ?and why do you feel the need to point this group out to me? Am I far right or do you just condescendingly consider me gullible and easily duped ,,, jeez

FWIW I wasn't suggesting you were gullible or easily duped when I mentioned it last week. I was trying to suggest that maybe the concerns that people such as yourself have are being artificially amplified for monetary gain by the media and by organised groups who will happily take donations, and that perhaps you might want to reflect on to what extent you are being played

I totally accept the point that this goes on in the extreme left too, and it's just as wrong when it happens there

[BaaLocks]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

As far as I am aware, the arguments used by Sunak and Braverman are that people coming here without permission are jumping the queue and that isn’t fair on those people that came here by legtitmate means, like for instance the Sunak and Braverman families. 

That seems to me a perfectly fair point. Whether their solution is the best one is another matter, I am not qualified to judge on that. Neither is Lineker of course. 

But where racists or xenophobia come into it I don’t know. Ironic that people like Lineker are upset about calling illegal immigrants what they are. Not so worried about calling people racists or Nazis. 

What queue? There isn't one - that's exactly the point

Who called who a racist btw? I missed that one.

[BaaLocks]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

How much aid has Russia and China pledged to Turkey and Syria out of interest?

I don't know, but when the day comes that we are using them as our moral compass we can pretty much give up.

[Anon]

58 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

 

Who called who a racist btw? I missed that one.

You implied, extremely unsubtly I might add, that Braverman, Sunak, anyone in this thread who takes issue with the large numbers economic migrants arriving illegally by boat only do so because of the colour of their skin.

On 16/03/2023 at 14:27, BaaLocks said:

If they are deemed to be from a safe country they are returned there or, based on the claim they made at their first country of entry (there is a system called Eurodacs that maintains that). Both these are outlined in the Dublin III Regulation, which is often criticized as the last point (return to first country they made claim in) is suggested to put an unfair burden on countries that are the extremity border of the EU (e.g. Greece, Italy). If the country they have fled from is not deemed safe, well, they probably have right to claim asylum.

Interestingly, they omit Ukrainian refugee numbers - all of which have been allowed in via an approved visa scheme. 150,000 to be precise - more than one and a half times as many as crossed in small boats in the last four years. Don't see too many complaints from Braverman and Farage on that one. Don't see Sunak telling them that they can consider themselves to be criminals if they try to come here. Don't see pages of consideration on how we are every going to find space for them in our 'full' country. But the point remains we have allowed twice as many Ukranians into the UK, with a fraction of the paperwork and burden of proof, than we did people fleeing Germany in the 1930s.

Strange how the optics differ - what could it possibly be that makes Ukranians acceptable but Eritreans, Libyans, Yemeni, Afghans, Iranians and Sudanese not? Let me think what could possibly cause such a different view to be applied to their plight?

 

On 16/03/2023 at 14:47, The Last Post said:

 purely guesswork ? 

 

23 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Not that I have a problem with that, but why not just say it if that's what you think? Why play stupid semantic games?

[BaaLocks]

Just now, Anon said:

You implied, extremely unsubtly I might add, that Braverman, Sunak, anyone in this thread who takes issue with the large numbers economic migrants arriving illegally by boat only do so because of the colour of their skin.

Not that I have a problem with that, but why not just say it if that's what you think? Why play stupid semantic games?

I don't think I was playing any game - what I said, or if it helps I will be extremely unsubtle about it. Institutional racism (and yes, Braverman and Sunak are just as culpable) and economic gain drive where we support and who is acceptable to invite into our country, or support within their own. Nobody is suggesting we just open the doors but policy should be set on compassion, and - candidly - acceptance in our part as a colonial power in the situation that many in places like Africa find themselves. To not do so belittles us as a nation and weakens our position when helping others be better.

What I am not suggesting, and my apologies if it feels inferred, is that anyone on this thread is suggesting we stop the small boats to make sure we keep the brown ones out. But I am suggesting some are less than sympathetic / aware to the true distress many of these people find themselves in and I suggest we could certainly assist more than we are currently doing and not let the fear mongering of the likes of Farage and Mike Graham drive conclusion.

I guess that's a good point to close my contribution to this thread - as I have said on another one, I'm not hear to play internet bantz on this topic and point score for shttz and giggles. I'm not running away, I just have better things to do than run around in circles.

 

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, Ramarena said:

Not sure you can compare the Sunak and Braverman families who potentially emigrated as economic migrants and commonwealth citizens during the 60’s, with people today fleeing places like Ukraine, Afghanistan, Sudan, Syria, etc.

I am not. Are Ukrainians in the small boats? As I said the biggest group are the Albanians. 

[Ramarena]

42 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I am not. Are Ukrainians in the small boats? As I said the biggest group are the Albanians. 

You are trying to conflate economic migrants and asylum seekers, two different forms of immigration. 

[Archied]

6 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm not entirely sure if you watched the video but some local women wanted to protest against asylum seekers because of made up online rumours. Luckily, a national far right group helped make the protest much bigger. The main guy speaking on behalf of the far right group has been charged with hate crimes, hangs about with a guy who dresses like hitler whilst delivering anti-foreigner speeches and has links to a guy imprisoned for plotting to kill an mp. I'm not sure if the ordinary decent people knew of this when he helpfully set up a facebook page for them.

I mentioned you, as a few weeks ago you took exception to publications like the Daily Mail calling groups who protested against the drag queens as Far Right. The same group who were also involved in amplifying these baseless anti-refugee protests. They are clearly a hate filled group, expoiting local tensions and concerns to push their own vile agendas.

My mate's 80 year old mum (who has taken in Ukrainan refugees of Afghan origin) went to the counter protest. I'll find out if she was contacted by hate filled far left groups.

Didn’t watch the video, I’m quite able to figure out who are  unpleasant extreme people whether they be far right or far left thanks , I do this by listening to balanced people on both sides 

[Archied]

6 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

FWIW I wasn't suggesting you were gullible or easily duped when I mentioned it last week. I was trying to suggest that maybe the concerns that people such as yourself have are being artificially amplified for monetary gain by the media and by organised groups who will happily take donations, and that perhaps you might want to reflect on to what extent you are being played

I totally accept the point that this goes on in the extreme left too, and it's just as wrong when it happens there

Stive , I’m 62 years old ,I have a hotch potch of views to the point where plenty of people I know consider me strongly left wing yet others seem to think I’m verging on far right ???? , so yes I do find it condescending when people with far more narrow views want to ask me to consider if I’m being played 

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, Ramarena said:

You are trying to conflate economic migrants and asylum seekers, two different forms of immigration. 

I am not trying anything least of all conflation of something that is already naturally conflated.  85% of Albanian migrants claim asylum. I'm not sure what they are claiming asylum from , there is no war in Albania. 

[Ramarena]

43 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I am not trying anything least of all conflation of something that is already naturally conflated.  85% of Albanian migrants claim asylum. I'm not sure what they are claiming asylum from , there is no war in Albania. 

I never mentioned Albanians, that was you.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Ramarena said:

I never mentioned Albanians, that was you.

[Archied]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

Stive , I’m 62 years old ,I have a hotch potch of views to the point where plenty of people I know consider me strongly left wing yet others seem to think I’m verging on far right ???? , so yes I do find it condescending when people with far more narrow views want to ask me to consider if I’m being played 

So what does the above post elicit? Laugh imogi s from the usual suspects who stick together no matter what , they parrot each other on every subject and yet they believe it’s people like me who are being played when they follow blindly the line on any and every  issue they believe is the left wing without fail , no matter how stupid it looks , it’s as if they fear if they deviate on any one issue the whole house of cards will come tumbling down ,

ive stopped expressing my honest opinion that people were played during covid , ive not been honest enough to openly tell these net zero zealots that they are being played , remember when being green and saving the planet was very measurable and sensible, stop the take make throw away , stop putting rubbish in the oceans , stop calling for year on year growth on a planet that stays the same size ,now people who by the very nature that they care are being played , being played into the very thing that is worst for our planet , throw everything away and produce and consume more and all this cleverly done on the not so measurable, who can deny climate change , it’s happening and has done for millions of years anything beyond that is disputable emotive fear producing guff that has greens rushing for they’re wallets to consume and produce at a massive rate filling the pockets of the same old same old ,,,

If we must go down this condescending road time and time again then fair play im happy to go backwards and play the same game??‍♂️

Edited March 17, 2023 by Archied

[ariotofmyown]

5 hours ago, Archied said:

Didn’t watch the video, I’m quite able to figure out who are  unpleasant extreme people whether they be far right or far left thanks , I do this by listening to balanced people on both sides 

Well, the people in the video had clearly been duped by far right extremists. One of the local organisers said "I didn't even know what a facist was."

I didn't post the video to educate you or others on how to figure out who are extreme. I posted it to show how sad and depressing this all is. And that pedantically addressing Linekar's exact words is missing the point somewhat.

I did mention you though in relation to your comments recently about protestors against drag queens been labelled as far right by the media. The same far right group as in the video were involved in the drag queen protests, hence why the media called said it.

I was just expecting a simple thank you for letting you know that neo nazis were part of those protests. No one is saying you are in anyway extreme, but you obviously weren't aware of the above, or would not have complained about the coverage.

 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Well, the people in the video had clearly been duped by far right extremists. One of the local organisers said "I didn't even know what a facist was."

I didn't post the video to educate you or others on how to figure out who are extreme. I posted it to show how sad and depressing this all is. And that pedantically addressing Linekar's exact words is missing the point somewhat.

I did mention you though in relation to your comments recently about protestors against drag queens been labelled as far right by the media. The same far right group as in the video were involved in the drag queen protests, hence why the media called said it.

I was just expecting a simple thank you for letting you know that neo nazis were part of those protests. No one is saying you are in anyway extreme, but you obviously weren't aware of the above, or would not have complained about the coverage.

 

Jeeez , you was just expecting a simple thank you for letting me know neo nazis were involved in protests ?????, gonna let you into a secret , that minority have been involved in / tagging onto protest since at least the early seventies ( as far back as I can remember ) thing is they used to be the only extreme loons you needed to worry about , those days are gone and the loons have infiltrated what used to be the decent left , have you heard the expression that even a broken clock is right twice a day? So again thanks but no thanks , I don’t need help in spotting extremists under any banner ,

god save me from the habitual eternal saviours, saving the planet , humanity and society one predictable predictably self gratifying issue after another , who knows , if it wasn’t for them us normal mere mortals might never realise we are being played ?, I wonder do they never turn the mirror round and wonder if it’s not they themselves being played ? 
let’s perform adult entertainment to kids and allow parents  to take kids to it ,, they’ll never go for that one you say ? Course they will if we just attach the minority drag queens to it first, the saviour s will fight tooth and nail for it ,,,,,,,,wow genius 

let’s let men into women’s safe spaces like prisons , refuges , toilets , changing rooms ect ,, they’ll never go for it you say? Course they will if we attach the minority trans to it first ,the saviours will fight tooth and nail for it ,,, genius

people are waking up and moving towards drastically cutting they’re consumption and holding us responsible for the waste created ( 30 odd years ago ),we need to get them back on board buying more and throwing more away , they’ll never go for it you say ? Course they will if we attach the naturally occurring since time began climate change and only buying more and throwing more away can save them , tha saviours will fight tooth and nail for it ,,, genius 

I could go on with many more examples but no need , if we want to talk about who’s being played ,I’m up for it 

expecting socialist comrades Flash Gordon and the saviour groupie s along shortly for a pile on or maybe just some imogi s if they havnt got a brush and a pot of paint handy

Edited March 18, 2023 by Archied

[FindernRam]

13 hours ago, Archied said:

I do this by listening to balanced people on both sides

The problem is knowing just who is balanced, and not overstating their case.  As the Ginger Whinger said "this is our truth"!

What I do know from my own eyes is that the lifeboats and Border  patrol craft are delivering 95% or more of young men, not families. They may have families, but if so then they have left them behind to fend for themselves.

As to the crossing being dangerous, I wouldn't want to do it, yet thousands have made it across with only a very few lost at sea.

Net immigration is 500000, so a city the size of Liverpool is required every year just to house them all.

[ariotofmyown]

3 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Net immigration is 500000, so a city the size of Liverpool is required every year just to house them all.

That is all immigrants though, not people crossing in small boats. The way you wrote that post seemed to suggest there was 500k people crossing in small boats.

Wasn't the small boat number 45k? 

[Ram-Alf]

23 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

 

Wasn't the small boat number 45k? 

Info here.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2020/05/11/arrivals-via-deadly-and-illegal-channel-crossing-from-safe-countries#:~:text=What you need to know%3A So far 2%2C950,the total for January and February in 2022.

[Archied]

54 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

The problem is knowing just who is balanced, and not overstating their case.  As the Ginger Whinger said "this is our truth"!

What I do know from my own eyes is that the lifeboats and Border  patrol craft are delivering 95% or more of young men, not families. They may have families, but if so then they have left them behind to fend for themselves.

As to the crossing being dangerous, I wouldn't want to do it, yet thousands have made it across with only a very few lost at sea.

Net immigration is 500000, so a city the size of Liverpool is required every year just to house them all.

The unbalanced on both sides usually show they’re hand quite quickly if you listen and watch enough , here’s the thing though the extremists often say things that are correct , if they didn’t they wouldn’t have a starting point to get people on board and moving to the more extreme but our little left wing cabal on here use the tactic ( not when the other way round ) we’ll they are such and such so EVERYTHING they say can and should be dismissed and as such if there’s any area you might think they are correct on your a gullible fool being played but of course they could never be played in the same way by the other side , they are far too superior, intelligent and people of high morals ???

Edited March 18, 2023 by Archied