Reality Check

[kevinhectoring]

3 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I think all of our players are of Championship quality, none are of Premier quality. 

Knight could play on the fringe of a middling PL side tomorrow in the right set up. Cashin would realistically hope to be playing there in a couple of years 

[DRBee]

5 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Wasn’t last night just a reality check? We are a pretty good LEAGUE 1 Team, with a few players of Championship quality. We are currently nowhere near being able to compete against strong Premier League opposition, indeed a few injuries to key players and we are unlikely to be able to compete against strong League 1 opposition. Warne appears to be getting us organised - that was again evident last night - but two key players were ‘off’ last night which made the game impossible, especially with McGoldrick lame. Let’s continue to enjoy the fact that we have a very strong club, and a highly committed group of players and coaching staff. I remain confident, based on what I have seen over recent weeks, that Warne will have us ready for a really good go at play-off success come season end. A couple of additions today would be ideal (decent forward, and versatile defender).

Not sure what 'reality' is being checked here. If lower league teams manage to beat  a Premier League team in the cup it's not always because they have the quality to beat a superior team. A one=off win often involves a cramped pitch, a poor playing surface and perhaps a complacent selection by the Premier league team. How many good results have we had against top teams even whilst in the Championship, with better players than now. We have had some good performances without winning. As soon as the teams were announced , it was rather obvious we had reduced chances with both McGoldrick and Cashin not in the starting line up. Cashin gets us out of so many scrapes against League 1 teams it seemed ominous to be without him. Most fans are focussed on league results and we will readily fall back on the argument that a cup run is often a distraction. 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

Knight could play on the fringe of a middling PL side tomorrow in the right set up. Cashin would realistically hope to be playing there in a couple of years 

Sibley too , but he is an enigma. Who knows maybe him playing Lb could yet be the answer to that but he still has to develop defensively. 

[kevinhectoring]

3 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Knight could play on the fringe of a middling PL side tomorrow in the right set up. Cashin would realistically hope to be playing there in a couple of years 

From everything we’ve seen so far, Wildsmith would also do fine in the PL. 

[Sufferingfool]

For what it’s worth I thought West Ham respected the danger we posed stringing 5 across the back and nullifying our wide players giving them no room to cross. Unfortunately we lacked penetration through the middle with Didzy absent and they just waited opportunity to hit us on the break. If I were an Iron I would not have been happy with how negative they were but then again Moyes was playing for his job!

[Blondest Goat]

36 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

From everything we’ve seen so far, Wildsmith would also do fine in the PL. 

Why is noone beating a path to our door for these PL quality players we have then?

 

[kevinhectoring]

15 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Why is noone beating a path to our door for these PL quality players we have then?

 

Several reasons. Not least that there are many more players on the planet capable of playing in the top flight than there are players in the top flight 

[Blondest Goat]

7 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Several reasons. Not least that there are many more players on the planet capable of playing in the top flight than there are players in the top flight 

I get what you mean.   It is actually surprising that there hasnt been more interest from Championship clubs for Cashin, Knight etc.   Good for us though.

[alram]

5 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Knight could play on the fringe of a middling PL side tomorrow in the right set up. Cashin would realistically hope to be playing there in a couple of years 

the gap is absolute huge between the championship and premier league. the gap between league one and the premier league is ten times as big. 

you either underestimate the premier league or over estimate our players. look at the players near the bottom of that league have. there is full england internationals in some of the teams.

[kevinhectoring]

7 hours ago, Blondest Goat said:

I get what you mean.   It is actually surprising that there hasnt been more interest from Championship clubs for Cashin, Knight etc.   Good for us though.

I’d be surprised if there hasn’t been interest in one or both. Warne seems skilled at getting players’ heads in the right place. Take Knight.  Some players in his position would say “bugger this I want a higher salary and I want to play football at a higher level. Now”. But the signs are he’s bought into staying this season to seek promotion. So perhaps there have been approaches and he and his agent (and the club) have just said ‘talk to us in the summer if we don’t go up’.  (Perhaps there was a connection between all that and restoring him to the midfield where he belongs who knows ?)
 

The transition back to the Championship and beyond must be a difficult thing to manage especially with the restrictions we’re under. Warne and his team seem quite on top of it 

Edited February 1, 2023 by kevinhectoring

[kevinhectoring]

7 hours ago, alram said:

the gap is absolute huge between the championship and premier league. the gap between league one and the premier league is ten times as big. 

you either underestimate the premier league or over estimate our players. look at the players near the bottom of that league have. there is full england internationals in some of the teams.

Yes I accept it’s a big jump up. I do think tho that Knight’s athleticism sets him apart from the rest of our players. He looked good against that West Ham line up. And I’m not saying he could ever play for a top 6 side. 
 

There are plenty of championship players who are footballers of PL quality but who don’t have the speed, strength, endurance or drive to play in the prem. ?  for example.   
 

PS I think Wildsmith could play in the Prem based on what we’ve seen this season

[plymouthram]

23 hours ago, Blondest Goat said:

I get what you mean.   It is actually surprising that there hasnt been more interest from Championship clubs for Cashin, Knight etc.   Good for us though.

They have'nt got the money is one answer, the other is, they can't overspend and gamble like we did in the past, just in case they end up like what Derby have been through.

 

[angieram]

I saw an interesting article on Twitter today that said only 3% of the Premier League's spending this window had been on players in the EFL. 

That means 97% of that money has gone to each other or abroad.

This is bound to affect the rest of domestic football. Nothing is filtering down.

The sooner we get an independent regulator for football, the better, imo.

[Boycie]

On 31/01/2023 at 14:31, Curtains said:

Thanks mate.  
Was just having time out .

Been to most games home and away.

We have been doing well of late and it’s easy to forget where we were just 5 months ago as a club. 

Sitting or standing?

I’m in the sitting brigade me.

[CBRammette]

45 minutes ago, angieram said:

I saw an interesting article on Twitter today that said only 3% of the Premier League's spending this window had been on players in the EFL. 

That means 97% of that money has gone to each other or abroad.

This is bound to affect the rest of domestic football. Nothing is filtering down.

The sooner we get an independent regulator for football, the better, imo.

Yes thought that listening about all transfer news yesterday. So many signed never-heard of European players.  Thought was supposed to more difficult now post- Brexit

[Ambitious]

It's difficult to tell how good we are, because playing at this level gives you a chance of 'get right' games where you can beat up on bad teams. It's harder in Championship, because you're playing against largely decent teams week-in, week-out. You do get some bad teams, also some good teams - largely, though, it's why it's so hard to predict. 

We have signed these players out of contract after being relegated to League One - we've done really well to get so many good players in given the circumstances. We were also lucky to lean on four of the best academy players we've produced in decades all at one time in Bird, Sibley, Cashin and Knight. It's a shame Ebiowei didn't stick around to join them, but I realise he didn't develop alongside them. 

When you also look at the players who are stars at this level, consider in the grand scheme of things their ability: Mehmeti was one of the best players in the league, joins Bristol City for less than a couple of million. The top goalscorer in the division last season was Will Keane, a sub-par footballer with very limited ability. Jonson Clarke Harris is the top goalscorer at the minute, I think he's a decent player but he's struggled to carve a career out even in the second division of English football. He's played 225 games in League One and now he's 28. 

I'm sure there are some gems at this level, maybe there are a few young players that will go on to play in the Premier League - perhaps even play for England. It's happened quite often over the past decade where players have used this level as a platform to grow their careers. However, on the flip side, I would imagine there is a good proportion of players at this level who will be non-league within 2 years and probably out of football all together in the next four. 

Just consider that we were a team with four or five players at the start of pre-season, not allowed to spend any fees and restricted to something like 40-50% of our turnover for our wage bill. We are currently sat fourth, making good ground on third and probably a good bet to win promotion this season. The three reasons that has happened: 1) we have made some good decisions following the new ownership, i.e. the likes of Wildsmith, NML and McGoldrick. 2) We have a core of young players who absolutely have no business playing at this level and are only here contractually in Knight, Bird, Sibley and Cashin. 3) The level we're at, although contains some talent, is largely poor. In all honesty, our success as good as it has been for us, is a indictment on League One football. 

Nevertheless, me, I don't care, I like this group of players and it's great to see them have success.  

[Eddie]

I was, frankly, amazed upon reading the match thread after returning home from PPS on Monday night.

Some people just haven't got a clue - or they have very short memories indeed. Six months ago, there was every possibility that we would never see DCFC play again

 

 

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

I saw an interesting article on Twitter today that said only 3% of the Premier League's spending this window had been on players in the EFL. 

That means 97% of that money has gone to each other or abroad.

This is bound to affect the rest of domestic football. Nothing is filtering down.

The sooner we get an independent regulator for football, the better, imo.

That's a damning statistic, but I find it difficult to see what an independent regulator would do? 

The Premier League will eventually be a closed shop, I have no doubts about that. I'd imagine it looks like the Premier League 2 where you have a two tiered system as to not lose the promotion/relegation aspect. There will be less games for the top teams in the league, so they could focus on the cups, international games, etc. 

The EFL will probably get a large divorce fee out of it, then they will be on their own - a pyramid of national leagues where the Championship becomes the old division 1 - the top division for teams not in the Premier League. Sure, I'd also wager that there would be an opportunity for teams with certain stature to apply for inclusion into the Premier League (again, leading to more settlements to the EFL) but with extremely high criteria. 

I would guess that the real race is to get your foot in the door before it all happens, but honestly, I strongly believe it's not to say that the EFL couldn't make a much more worthy product on their own terms rather than pandering to the Premier League for handouts and constantly sticking their nose into club's dire finances. 

A closed shop for the Premier League means that there would be no disparity in finances, other than what clubs can generate, and create a much more competitive product. Owners aren't going to be chasing the rainbow. It's a drastic step, I know, but ultimately it's only heading in this direction. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Ambitious

[PistoldPete]

8 hours ago, Ambitious said:

That's a damning statistic, but I find it difficult to see what an independent regulator would do? 

The Premier League will eventually be a closed shop, I have no doubts about that. I'd imagine it looks like the Premier League 2 where you have a two tiered system as to not lose the promotion/relegation aspect. There will be less games for the top teams in the league, so they could focus on the cups, international games, etc. 

The EFL will probably get a large divorce fee out of it, then they will be on their own - a pyramid of national leagues where the Championship becomes the old division 1 - the top division for teams not in the Premier League. Sure, I'd also wager that there would be an opportunity for teams with certain stature to apply for inclusion into the Premier League (again, leading to more settlements to the EFL) but with extremely high criteria. 

I would guess that the real race is to get your foot in the door before it all happens, but honestly, I strongly believe it's not to say that the EFL couldn't make a much more worthy product on their own terms rather than pandering to the Premier League for handouts and constantly sticking their nose into club's dire finances. 

A closed shop for the Premier League means that there would be no disparity in finances, other than what clubs can generate, and create a much more competitive product. Owners aren't going to be chasing the rainbow. It's a drastic step, I know, but ultimately it's only heading in this direction. 

The regulator will have proper statutory force. Unlike EFL who make up their own rules that don’t even fit with the law of the land. And a regulator and or the Government can enforce a more even distribution of monies flowing from Tv companies. 

[Curtains]

10 hours ago, Boycie said:

Sitting or standing?

I’m in the sitting brigade me.

Both