Tactics. Warne vs Rosenior

[Curtains]

3 hours ago, David said:

I’m not unhappy, just don’t really see the point.

For what it’s worth, I always believe a manager needs a year at the club at least, something which Rosenior never had the privilege of (being in charge), Warne not even close.

Where we are now is Warne has been at the club for a month, during that time he’s been on holiday, we’ve had an international break with a few of the players away so he will still be in that figuring out what’s what and who can do what stage.

He’s clearly asking something completely different from the players and that won’t happen over night, I’m not sure we truly saw the best a Rosenior team could offer, nor have we seen what the best a Warne team can offer.

I think we’re in danger of looking like a very silly fanbase (online) and should have some more patience before ripping into him, at least let him have the January window to bring in some players he likes for his system. 

So you are calling  me out for starting a poll that makes us look a silly fan base .

Thanks 

[Day]

16 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So you are calling  me out for starting a poll that makes us look a silly fan base .

Thanks 

No, that’s not what I said. 

[IlsonDerby]

High intensity????? 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So you are calling  me out for starting a poll that makes us look a silly fan base .

Thanks 

I didn’t read @David’s comment as singling you out; he seemed to be saying the way many of us are talking about Warne is perhaps an overreaction and a bit pointless for the stage we are at (he’s new and hasn’t even been able to make a transfer yet)

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, David said:

No, that’s not what I said. 

I think if you look back on my posts when Warne was appointed I was fully backing his appointment.

I still haven’t lost faith in him  but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with all his tactics .

IMO with the players he has he needs to move away from 3 at the back at the moment and play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 .

I think the poll is actually proving good for Warne as he is above Rosenior.

I listened to Rosenior often say he didn’t want to risk players if they weren’t fully fit and with an aging squad I can see why  now .

The fans turned on Rowett and Pearson but Warne seems to have an approval rating .

I am a loyal Derby fan and have rarely wanted any manager sacked and I do understand the turmoil the club has been through 

IMO Warne isn’t just about high intensity and of course he needs time .

The players are doing their best .

I hope we win Saturday.

Come on you Rams 

 

 

 

 

[Day]

3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I think if you look back on my posts when Warne was appointed I was fully backing his appointment.

I still haven’t lost faith in him  but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with all his tactics .

IMO with the players he has he needs to move away from 3 at the back at the moment and play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 .

I think the poll is actually proving good for Warne as he is above Rosenior.

I listened to Rosenior often say he didn’t want to risk players if they weren’t fully fit and with an aging squad I can see why  now .

The fans turned on Rowett and Pearson but Warne seems to have an approval rating .

I am a loyal Derby fan and have rarely wanted any manager sacked and I do understand the turmoil the club has been through 

IMO Warne isn’t just about high intensity and of course he needs time .

The players are doing their best .

I hope we win Saturday.

Come on you Rams 

Really wasn’t any need for this, especially defending your loyalty.

You’ve taken it personally when I wasn’t singling you out for starting the poll, I was talking about the general chatter across the online fanbase (here, Facebook, Twitter) on Warne’s back already is going to make us look very silly one month into his tenure.

 

[vonwright]

20 minutes ago, David said:

Really wasn’t any need for this, especially defending your loyalty.

You’ve taken it personally when I wasn’t singling you out for starting the poll, I was talking about the general chatter across the online fanbase (here, Facebook, Twitter) on Warne’s back already is going to make us look very silly one month into his tenure.

 

Normally agree with you on pretty much everything but I don't see the problem here. Warne's reputation is as a manager who plays a particular way (very successfully) and I think Derby fans are asking a) can this work with the squad we have (including the players we spent our bedget on), b) if not, can Warne adapt/tweak his preferred tactics and formation, c) if not, how long will we have to wait to get players in that do fit Warne's methods, and where will we be by then?

All seem reasonable questions, especially after we've seen what we've seen so far. 

Personally I believe Warne will see the evidence before him, make a few tweaks, and things will improve. He seems smart enough. I've never bought into this black v white, passing v hoof it narrative. But I do think the formation isn't working, and probably won't, and there are reasonable questions about whether it's smart to change the fundamental philosophy of a club when you can't sign new players, and a lot of your better players don't obviously fit the new way of thinking. 

If other fans think it 'silly' that we are talking about such things - I'm fine with that. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by vonwright

[Day]

3 minutes ago, vonwright said:

Normally agree with you on pretty much everything but I don't see the problem here. Warne's reputation is as a manager who plays a particular way (very successfully) and I think Derby fans are asking a) can this work with the squad we have (including the players we spent our bedget on), b) if not, can Warne adapt/tweak his preferred tactics and formation, c) if not, how long will we have to wait to get players in that do fit Warne's methods, and where will we be by then?

All seem reasonable questions, especially after we've seen what we've seen so far. 

Personally I believe Warne will see the evidence before him, make a few tweaks, and things will improve. He seems smart enough. I've never bought into this black v white, passing v hoof it narrative. But I do think the formation isn't working, and probably won't, and there are reasonable questions about whether it's smart to change the fundamental philosophy of a club when you can't sign new players, and a lot of your better players don't obviously fit the new way of thinking. 

If other fans think it 'silly' that we are talking about such things - I'm fine with that. 

Those are valid questions, however I have seen talk of wanting rid already, also on Twitter the #WarneOut has started and I find it pretty all ridiculous. 

I don’t think you will find many fans that are content with the football on display right now as it’s not bringing the results, I doubt Warne himself and his coaching staff will be happy either. When some already have eyes on the next manager after a month and without a transfer window, it’s this that will make us look silly. 

A bit of calm and patience is needed.

[vonwright]

3 minutes ago, David said:

Those are valid questions, however I have seen talk of wanting rid already, also on Twitter the #WarneOut has started and I find it pretty all ridiculous. 

I agree that's ridiculous. But to be fair to Curtains his poll wasn't 'Warne out yes or no?'

[Day]

7 minutes ago, vonwright said:

I agree that's ridiculous. But to be fair to Curtains his poll wasn't 'Warne out yes or no?'

Agree, may have been a clumsy choice of topic to air my thoughts.

With this topic, plus….

Radio Derby all in for Warne tonight

Was 4 year contract too long for Paul Warne

Warne’s managerial start at Rotherham

Is Paul Warne the next Nigel Pearson

Warne is not the messiah

And the appointment thread which is continuing, where it’s all pretty much the same discussion going on, chose this one to empty my head as oppose to getting involved in every one.  

 

[europia]

I do like Liam and appreciate his efforts as a young ambitious coach. It's quite possible that if he was in a similar position managing a 2nd / 3rd tier club in Spain or Holland, he would have the players and tactics to achieve success and progress in management.

Obviously Liam didn't fit the bill for the new DCFC owner. Mr Clowes looked at Warne's achievements at Rotherham and decided that he is 'the ticket' back to the championship. 

Personally I haven't seen a lot of Rotherham, so I honestly don't know what Warne's football ideology really is. I do know that we need to escape from L1 asap, and if Warne is able to deliver on that, I am not too concerned about the style football he opts for. 

[vonwright]

8 minutes ago, David said:

Agree, may have been a clumsy choice of topic to air my thoughts.

With this topic, plus….

Radio Derby all in for Warne tonight

Was 4 year contract too long for Paul Warne

Warne’s managerial start at Rotherham

Is Paul Warne the next Nigel Pearson

Warne is not the messiah

And the appointment thread which is continuing, where it’s all pretty much the same discussion going on, chose this one to empty my head as oppose to getting involved in every one.  

 

Fair enough!

[angieram]

Last year when we were in the middle of our worst existential crisis since the last one, we said we'd love it if we were saved and all we'd got to talk about was tactics.

Now we're here, we have our wish, and somehow we aren't supposed to talk about tactics. Why not? It's why we all signed up to the messageboard in the first place.

I absolutely defend anybody's right to do just that! If you disagree, put the opposing point of view.

At the very least you'll be helping @David out - his advertising revenue must be way down since the administration thread dried up! ??

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

Been said already, but I’ll repeat.

The LR tactics had been found out and more teams had worked out how to nullify with no sign of willingness to adapt.

PW also got a clear (different) style preference with the wrong player mix. Is giving up on his way and changing to that which suits the players (Rooney ball?) going to get us “There” quicker than persevering such that players who can adapt and those that can’t replaced (Jan).

Personally I was fed up with Rooney ball and prepared to be patient with HOPE that it will over a season be turned round.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Dean (hick) Saunders

[Guest]

Interesting assessment of League 1 

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, ExiledinDerby said:

Interesting assessment of League 1 

I've absolutely no idea of the point of that mate. #COYR

[Guest]

Uses statistics to determine performance as opposed to feelings..  suggests that only a few top placed teams are performing better than derby this season. To clear the Rosenior v Warne debate let’s see where derby sit on this in January… 

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, ExiledinDerby said:

Uses statistics to determine performance as opposed to feelings..  suggests that only a few top placed teams are performing better than derby this season. To clear the Rosenior v Warne debate let’s see where derby sit on this in January… 

The league table tells us that doesn't it?

Not really a fan of xG its as useful as VAR.

[hintonsboots]

20 hours ago, Ramarena said:

Can't we splice Warne's and LR's DNA and create the ultimate DCFC manager who plays fast, attacking, possession based football?

 

It’s possible.

[Blondest Goat]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The league table tells us that doesn't it?

Not really a fan of xG its as useful as VAR.

XG can be helpful to a degree.  That chart? Definitely not.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Blondest Goat
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