Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[S8TY]

On 21/10/2022 at 22:33, IslandExile said:

I don't usually like the wrist slashers' comments immediately after a game but this time, I'm going to become one.

I had my doubts about Warne's style of play as he was joining us but those fears have just been strengthened further ever since.

Sure he seems a likeable enough guy (compare with wee Billy for example) and he wears a funny sparkling bobble hat.

But, from the little I've seen of Derby since his appointment, and including the full game against Ipswich tonight, if that's Warneball, then nah, no thanks.

Sure, he doesn't have the players to play the style he wants but each of the managers since Lampard could equally say that. For that reason, I'm willing to forego results and a promotion challenge this season.

But I would like to see a stylish, attacking form of football that I don't think we will ever see under Paul Warne. Whether that be in League One or if we get promoted back to the championship.

Fighting for every ball, being organised and productive at set pieces is important but it's not everything. This is meant to be the 'beautiful game' and Warneball just isn't beautiful.

(and it doesn't create that many more chances)

Sorry.

I too don't want to seem like I'm against PW because I want to see him and the team flourish but instead of getting rid of LR would'nt it have been an idea to have got an experienced coach or former manager to help him rather than thinking it was all broken ?

I've just watched Notts County v Maidstone United in the National league or 5th tier of our game and Notts County really do play some great fast energetic possesion based fast flowing attacking football without it looking like its too industrious

Its taken them to the top of a very competitive league but I was quite taken aback with how well they press and control the game with intent and bravery on the ball I really hope they go up playing this way

I'm not going to outright condone Warne's style and I'm talking mainly about his tenure at Rovrum but i still think Liam's methods with a bit of a tweak here and there would've given us a greater chance of success and longevity in a higher division should we get there

I know we have to get there first but I just hope its not a long arduous journey where we have to sit through games like Friday night thats all I am saying.

I still firmly believe in keeping the ball and controlling games and although it was tedious at times under Liam I still think success would have come with a tweak and maybe a bit of help from an experienced head at the club

Of course I wish Mr Warne well and hope it was an inspired choice by Mr Clowes to bring him in but the early signs are he's not prepared to be flexible and change away from 352 when we just don't have the players to suit that

[RoyMac5]

27 minutes ago, S8TY said:

I too don't want to seem like I'm against PW because I want to see him and the team flourish but instead of getting rid of LR would'nt it have been an idea to have got an experienced coach or former manager to help him rather than thinking it was all broken ?

He wants to be a manager, how do you think he'd take to being made to have his hand held?

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

We had our hands tied at the start of the season and we just needed to get in the players to make a squad , we got the best we could which makes sense until we sorted a long term plan 

I suppose it depends on whether you think the conditions we were working under meant that we couldn't operate with an eye on the future / long term plan at all.

The thing is the general consensus is that Clowes was interested in Warne before the season started, in an ideal world he'd have brought him in months ago, and that's where it doesn't really tally up. There was a long term plan, this was it.

I agree we got the 'best' players in we could, but considering Clowes was eyeing up Warne for the job and sees him as the man to head up the rebuilding, were they the most suitable players? I think they were for what Rosenior wanted, but wouldn't have been if Warne was already in place.

 

40 minutes ago, SirBrian said:

Not being in the know, my guess we had to take what players would come to Derby for the low wages we could offer, and yes Hourihane appeared to be an outstanding coup by Liam, maybe Boro will come in for him in January with the offer of better wages, remember we can sell players but not buy them.

The wages we could offer were still higher than most in this division. McGoldrick/Hourihane/NML/Barkhuizen will be among the higher earners in the league, top 20% for sure.

Again, if the future was always intended to be Warne then those wages could have been elsewhere, but instead we've spent some of them on players who don't really have much hope of performing the way he wants and who'll probably not be here next season.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Kokosnuss

[S8TY]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

He wants to be a manager, how do you think he'd take to being made to have his hand held?

why do you always see things negatively ? He didn't need his hand held but maybe some help would'nt have hurt unless he didn't want any help who knows? But to rip it all up seems strange , could've had experience like when Harry came in to help or was that holding someones hand too ?

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, S8TY said:

why do you always see things negatively ? He didn't need his hand held but maybe some help would'nt have hurt unless he didn't want any help who knows? But to rip it all up seems strange , could've had experience like when Harry came in to help or was that holding someones hand too ?

It was just filling Harry's bank account. My understanding is that he contributed nothing for his £20k a week except moving us nearer to the financial abyss that was looming.

[Archied]

50 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

I suppose it depends on whether you think the conditions we were working under meant that we couldn't operate with an eye on the future / long term plan at all.

The thing is the general consensus is that Clowes was interested in Warne before the season started, in an ideal world he'd have brought him in months ago, and that's where it doesn't really tally up. There was a long term plan, this was it.

I agree we got the 'best' players in we could, but considering Clowes was eyeing up Warne for the job and sees him as the man to head up the rebuilding, were they the most suitable players? I think they were for what Rosenior wanted, but wouldn't have been if Warne was already in place.

 

The wages we could offer were still higher than most in this division. McGoldrick/Hourihane/NML/Barkhuizen will be among the higher earners in the league, top 20% for sure.

Again, if the future was always intended to be Warne then those wages could have been elsewhere, but instead we've spent some of them on players who don't really have much hope of performing the way he wants and who'll probably not be here next season.

I’m a bit lost , are you saying we should have been in contact with warne and getting him to recommend players he would want us to bring in ready in case he decided to come to us at some point, seems to me clowes had to urgently get in  players so we could field a team and most of those players were already half lined up by Rooney and Liam , Rooney left and liam was made INTERIM manager , surely clowes had to do the best he could in the situation he had on his hands ,even if he knew warne was his chosen way forward it was by no means certain he could get him,, I reckon he ( clowes) got in decent players that pretty much most managers could utilise to keep us above relegation and perhaps a shot at promotion if things went well ,gave Liam a shot but found he could get his preferred man in    (warne)

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, S8TY said:

why do you always see things negatively ? He didn't need his hand held but maybe some help would'nt have hurt unless he didn't want any help who knows? But to rip it all up seems strange , could've had experience like when Harry came in to help or was that holding someones hand too ?

It isn't negative. Why on earth do you think Rosenior, who has been assistant to Wayne Rooney and worked with Cocu, would see it as a positive step to have an experienced person appointed, just so he could keep the managers job?

[nottingram]

9 minutes ago, Archied said:

I’m a bit lost , are you saying we should have been in contact with warne and getting him to recommend players he would want us to bring in ready in case he decided to come to us at some point, seems to me clowes had to urgently get in  players so we could field a team and most of those players were already half lined up by Rooney and Liam , Rooney left and liam was made INTERIM manager , surely clowes had to do the best he could in the situation he had on his hands ,even if he knew warne was his chosen way forward it was by no means certain he could get him,, I reckon he ( clowes) got in decent players that pretty much most managers could utilise to keep us above relegation and perhaps a shot at promotion if things went well ,gave Liam a shot but found he could get his preferred man in    (warne)

If I had to guess I think it’s pretty unlikely LR was ever going to be made manager permanently, and I struggle to see how Warne was less available in the summer than when we actually hired him, in fact I would imagine his stock increased

Rosenior didn’t do any better or worse than expected really, so based on that I think a decision had kind of been pre made. Not actioning that in the summer has meant we have a squad of players on two year deals, some of which I have no doubt Warne probably wouldn’t have wanted if he was building from scratch.

I don’t see how we were in so much of a rush in the summer that we couldn’t have taken a week or so just to hire the manager we actually wanted, rather than give someone we were not sold on at all pre season and 10 games. 

Based on the fact we were 7th and playing largely ok what would Rosenior had to have actually done to get the job full time? Top 2? 

[Archied]

23 minutes ago, nottingram said:

If I had to guess I think it’s pretty unlikely LR was ever going to be made manager permanently, and I struggle to see how Warne was less available in the summer than when we actually hired him, in fact I would imagine his stock increased

Rosenior didn’t do any better or worse than expected really, so based on that I think a decision had kind of been pre made. Not actioning that in the summer has meant we have a squad of players on two year deals, some of which I have no doubt Warne probably wouldn’t have wanted if he was building from scratch.

I don’t see how we were in so much of a rush in the summer that we couldn’t have taken a week or so just to hire the manager we actually wanted, rather than give someone we were not sold on at all pre season and 10 games. 

Based on the fact we were 7th and playing largely ok what would Rosenior had to have actually done to get the job full time? Top 2? 

Be the manager that clowes felt was the one to give a four year contract to ?

[nottingram]

4 minutes ago, Archied said:

Be the manager that clowes felt was the one to give a four year contract to ?

Well yes exactly?

Did he do any better or worse than expected, really? If the answer is no he cannot possibly have performed his way in or out of the job, so in my opinion the intention was never to actually hire him, unless we hugely over exceeded any sensible expectation

If the intention was never to hire him he shouldn’t have been given pre-season, the transfer window and 10 games. Makes no sense. 

All I’m saying is taking a bit of time to get the right manager in the summer would’ve made sense. In my opinion doing what we have, doesn’t.

[Blondest Goat]

18 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Those of us daring to criticise Warne's style are met with the retort "well it's better than Rosenior's pass along the back football".

Why is it so black and white? (Pardon the pun).

Isn't there a third way?

Still playing possession football, along the ground, but moving the ball forwards and much more quickly?

Amazing how the tippy-tappy around the back was able to beat West Brom (with the reserves no less) Oxford, Peterborough, Barnsley and Wycombe.  

[Jourdan]

I think Warne is under pressure already. I’d go as far to say he needs to win the next three games to relieve some of that pressure.

It’s entirely predictable. A large section of our fanbase will never accept Warne purely because what he’s trying to do doesn’t match up with their ideals.

I don’t really understand the outrage. In the league, we have won two reasonably comfortably and could have had another four points if not for some significant individual mistakes.

The Ipswich performance? Well, 6-7 players had an off night and lost their individual battles and so we lost the game. Make no mistake, it was a terrible watch. However we have had those games under all managers we have had, irrespective of style or level of success.

Personally I can see the good and the bad with what Warne is trying to do. I can see more joy on the way but I can also see more hiccups. Tomorrow night being one of them, potentially. Exeter are a dangerous side.

By Christmas, I think and hope we’ll be in the top six and things will be looking up. Warne simply needs some time and patience while he figures things out, irons out problems, and finally makes his mark.

Will the fanbase give him the time and patience he needs? Not likely. Sad to say, this could get toxic very quickly.

 

[Blondest Goat]

I think Warne will get us top 6 but then I think Rosenior would've done too.  If Warne can find a balance between the current headless chicken routine and Roseniors possession at all costs approach it should be even more comfortable.   We seem to have gone from one extreme to another.

 

[Jimbo Ram]

27 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I think Warne is under pressure already. I’d go as far to say he needs to win the next three games to relieve some of that pressure.

It’s entirely predictable. A large section of our fanbase will never accept Warne purely because what he’s trying to do doesn’t match up with their ideals.

I don’t really understand the outrage. In the league, we have won two reasonably comfortably and could have had another four points if not for some significant individual mistakes.

The Ipswich performance? Well, 6-7 players had an off night and lost their individual battles and so we lost the game. Make no mistake, it was a terrible watch. However we have had those games under all managers we have had, irrespective of style or level of success.

Personally I can see the good and the bad with what Warne is trying to do. I can see more joy on the way but I can also see more hiccups. Tomorrow night being one of them, potentially. Exeter are a dangerous side.

By Christmas, I think and hope we’ll be in the top six and things will be looking up. Warne simply needs some time and patience while he figures things out, irons out problems, and finally makes his mark.

Will the fanbase give him the time and patience he needs? Not likely. Sad to say, this could get toxic very quickly.

 

And we could have lost some games. Other teams make individual mistakes against us too….our first goal at Cambridge, Accrington missed 2 penalties. We are where we deserve to be.

[nottingram]

43 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I think Warne is under pressure already. I’d go as far to say he needs to win the next three games to relieve some of that pressure.

It’s entirely predictable. A large section of our fanbase will never accept Warne purely because what he’s trying to do doesn’t match up with their ideals.

I don’t really understand the outrage. In the league, we have won two reasonably comfortably and could have had another four points if not for some significant individual mistakes.

The Ipswich performance? Well, 6-7 players had an off night and lost their individual battles and so we lost the game. Make no mistake, it was a terrible watch. However we have had those games under all managers we have had, irrespective of style or level of success.

Personally I can see the good and the bad with what Warne is trying to do. I can see more joy on the way but I can also see more hiccups. Tomorrow night being one of them, potentially. Exeter are a dangerous side.

By Christmas, I think and hope we’ll be in the top six and things will be looking up. Warne simply needs some time and patience while he figures things out, irons out problems, and finally makes his mark.

Will the fanbase give him the time and patience he needs? Not likely. Sad to say, this could get toxic very quickly.

 

A post that could have been written, almost word for word save for swapping some names, about Rosenior’s 10 or so games. 

In truth I don’t think he is under much pressure at all besides what he puts on himself. He’s about a month into a 4 year contract. But I think his job is more difficult than it needed to be and we are going to need MORE new players which was entirely avoidable. 

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

I think Warne is under pressure already. I’d go as far to say he needs to win the next three games to relieve some of that pressure.

 

I suspect he'll be relieving a lot more than just  "some of that pressure", if we win the next three games!  ?

 

... and so will I.  ?

 

[Jourdan]

33 minutes ago, nottingram said:

A post that could have been written, almost word for word save for swapping some names, about Rosenior’s 10 or so games. 

In truth I don’t think he is under much pressure at all besides what he puts on himself. He’s about a month into a 4 year contract. But I think his job is more difficult than it needed to be and we are going to need MORE new players which was entirely avoidable. 

The difference is, Rosenior was the interim manager. So of course people were going to be quicker to make up their minds. I remember when Wassall was interim manager and we lost at home to MK Dons in his first game and that was that for some. 

Warne is the permanent manager and he has been given a four year contract, so he should be given more time and more support to allow him to show why Clowes backed him and with such commitment.

If you really don’t think he’s under pressure, have a read of the thread from last week’s EFL Trophy game. The support for Warne is already waning.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Jourdan

[Ramifications]

Can I be the first to say, Warne out! 

?

 

[I am Ram]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

The difference is, Rosenior was the interim manager. So of course people were going to be quicker to make up their minds. I remember when Wassall was interim manager and we lost at home to MK Dons in his first game and that was that for some. 

Warne is the permanent manager and he has been given a four year contract, so he should be given more time and more support to allow him to show why Clowes backed him and with such commitment.

If you really don’t think he’s under pressure, have a read of the thread from last week’s EFL Trophy game. The support for Warne is already waning.

 

So, what you mean is, give him 11 games instead of your usual 10 ?. I mean 5 ?

[nottingram]

Just now, Jourdan said:

The difference is, Rosenior was the interim manager. So of course people were going to be quicker to make up their minds. I remember when Wassall was interim manager and we lost at home to MK Dons in his first home game and that was that for some. 

Warne is the permanent manager and he has been given a four year contract, so he should be given more time and more support to allow him to show why Clowes backed him and with such commitment.

If you really don’t think he’s under pressure, have a read of the thread from last week’s EFL Trophy game. The support for Warne is already waning.

 

And if you asked people outside of a matchday thread where things are a bit calmer whether they want Warne sacked then I reckon the vast vast majority would say no, of course not. 

I’m more than happy to give him time and support but I don’t see why we need to mitigate any poor performances under him any more than we did Rosenior. Man City under 9’s beat us convincingly at home, it’s going to attract some criticism just like Friday night should where we didn’t lay a glove on a team who’d just been beaten at home by Lincoln. But it doesn’t mean he’s under pressure, I’m confident he’ll be given time, as he should.

The system he wants to play doesn’t suit a few of our players, it’s not his fault but some flexibility would be nice.