Two tier world

[Archied]

The debate in the xr topic and lots of issues lately just seem to scream how easily we are accepting the move to a world where there are rules for the ordinary that don’t apply to the privileged and protections for them that aren’t extended to ordinary folk ,

watching the news tonight with a report of 3 burglars who targeted tamara ecclestone , frank lampard and the Leicester owner , the police checked cctv , interviewed around a thousand cab drivers , tracked the gang to south east london , carried on the investigation and tracked them to Italy ,they arrested them and they have been sentenced to 28 years in prison,,, now don’t get me wrong I think it’s fantastic they are caught and punished but ordinary folk are lucky if they get so much as a visit from police when burgled with thousands of burglary s not even investigated ,

the rich must be protected 

[Tyler Durden]

Don't you think the police allocate their resources to the magnitude of the crime?

I can't see them mobilising the whole of Nottinghamshire constabulary if M and S have complained someone has shoplifted a jar of coffee from their Bridgford store?

[Ram-Alf]

Them and us Archied, Them and us, But I conned them didn't I, I was a Manager for a well known company, I was manipulating our share price, I was caught and sent to prison for 5 years, But after 10 months inside I faked that I had Alzheimer's, I was released and soon after I was cured ? 

[Archied]

43 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Don't you think the police allocate their resources to the magnitude of the crime?

I can't see them mobilising the whole of Nottinghamshire constabulary if M and S have complained someone has shoplifted a jar of coffee from their Bridgford store?

Yea your right , some poor old pensioner burgled and robbed potless doesn’t have the magnitude of the rich robbed of what they can afford to replace a hundred times over , but hey ho as long as the plebs get a crime number over the phone alls good

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

Yea your right , some poor old pensioner burgled and robbed potless doesn’t have the magnitude of the rich robbed of what they can afford to replace a hundred times over , but hey ho as long as the plebs get a crime number over the phone alls good

Who provides the money to the police that they have to then try and allocate effectively?

If the police don't have the resourcing to adequately progress all of the crimes on their patch and that's down to funding then this is just going to turn into another political debate which I cba with so for that I'm out. 

[Archied]

8 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Who provides the money to the police that they have to then try and allocate effectively?

If the police don't have the resourcing to adequately progress all of the crimes on their patch and that's down to funding then this is just going to turn into another political debate which I cba with so for that I'm out. 

That’s fair enough in terms of it turning political but the point was that we seem to hardly notice how bad things are getting in terms of what ordinary folk can expect v the well to do

[I am Ram]

13 hours ago, Archied said:

The debate in the xr topic and lots of issues lately just seem to scream how easily we are accepting the move to a world where there are rules for the ordinary that don’t apply to the privileged and protections for them that aren’t extended to ordinary folk ,

watching the news tonight with a report of 3 burglars who targeted tamara ecclestone , frank lampard and the Leicester owner , the police checked cctv , interviewed around a thousand cab drivers , tracked the gang to south east london , carried on the investigation and tracked them to Italy ,they arrested them and they have been sentenced to 28 years in prison,,, now don’t get me wrong I think it’s fantastic they are caught and punished but ordinary folk are lucky if they get so much as a visit from police when burgled with thousands of burglary s not even investigated ,

the rich must be protected 

The police where invented to stop the poor, stealing from the rich. Nothing has changed.

[Archied]

33 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

The police where invented to stop the poor, stealing from the rich. Nothing has changed.

Yep there’s always been a bit of a glitch where you get more punishment for stealing money from the rich than say rape or some such crime but there just seems to be such a push over the last few years for things to get more uneven, covid kind of nudged me into noticing it more and wondered if people are noticing it creeping in more and more in other areas of life, some people seem ok with it ,

yes I know it’s kind of always been there but it just seems so blatant and in your face nowadays and very few bat an eyelid 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Archied

[BaaLocks]

12 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

I can't see them mobilising the whole of Nottinghamshire constabulary if M and S have complained someone has shoplifted a jar of coffee from their Bridgford store?

If it was their premium roast coffee it would likely be worth more than Tamara Ecclestone's jewellery

[BaaLocks]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

That’s fair enough in terms of it turning political but the point was that we seem to hardly notice how bad things are getting in terms of what ordinary folk can expect v the well to do

I am afraid it is late stage capitalism in effect. Another example, a building developer wants to put up thirteen houses on a field in our village, totally out of character with the village and contradicting key elements of our council's planning development charter. Local Parish council are doing all they can but local council are already admitting they don't have the resource to block it, when we asked if our councillor would support it we were told 'not in this political environment' and we quietly expect this will happen, even if nobody actually wants it. There just aren't the resources to enforce key elements of what we have expected in our society.

To the earlier point, there just aren't the police available to invetigate most crimes - they're not being lazy or hard faced, they just can't. It's not that Tamara Ecclestone had her jewellery stolen that is the issue, it's that she had them stolen in Westminster where there are the resources available and, if there weren't, they would probably just go out an hire private (note point on the news this morning, more people paying for private healthcare coz they can't wait for the NHS - don't worry about future governments privatising healthcare, it's happening today under our very noses).

TLDR: I have no problem with people getting (reasonably) rich. I have no problem with others preferring to not want to be rich, that doesn't make them lesser in any way. But everyone, and I mean everyone, must have access to the support networks that are fundamental to safe and healthy living - irrespective of what path they either choose or are given. Healthcare, education, policiing, housing, legal, public transport. No problem with private alternatives for those that cannot afford them but these are the basics of a society that everyone should have access to.

[Archied]

30 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I am afraid it is late stage capitalism in effect. Another example, a building developer wants to put up thirteen houses on a field in our village, totally out of character with the village and contradicting key elements of our council's planning development charter. Local Parish council are doing all they can but local council are already admitting they don't have the resource to block it, when we asked if our councillor would support it we were told 'not in this political environment' and we quietly expect this will happen, even if nobody actually wants it. There just aren't the resources to enforce key elements of what we have expected in our society.

To the earlier point, there just aren't the police available to invetigate most crimes - they're not being lazy or hard faced, they just can't. It's not that Tamara Ecclestone had her jewellery stolen that is the issue, it's that she had them stolen in Westminster where there are the resources available and, if there weren't, they would probably just go out an hire private (note point on the news this morning, more people paying for private healthcare coz they can't wait for the NHS - don't worry about future governments privatising healthcare, it's happening today under our very noses).

TLDR: I have no problem with people getting (reasonably) rich. I have no problem with others preferring to not want to be rich, that doesn't make them lesser in any way. But everyone, and I mean everyone, must have access to the support networks that are fundamental to safe and healthy living - irrespective of what path they either choose or are given. Healthcare, education, policiing, housing, legal, public transport. No problem with private alternatives for those that cannot afford them but these are the basics of a society that everyone should have access to.

The building/ planning issue is a tough one ,we desperately need more decent affordable  housing and if we are to build with the knowledge we have now regards energy / carbon going forward it’s a hard balancing act ,

in terms of the police I don’t feel they are at fault ,I honestly think the vast majority are decent people trying to do a very very tough job and have my respect for the people and situations they have to deal with, don’t think I could do it 

I just think our values are disappearing, maybe it’s true to a degree the opinion I heard someone state that our generation and youngsters in the main didn’t experience the fact that those values were fought for 

[1of4]

It's not just the police that runs a two tier system. The entire judicial system along with education and health systems as always been balanced in favour of the rich.

What access most of the nation has had to these systems is slowly being eroded. The cut backs to legal aid, the slow privatisation and under funding of the NHS and the under funding of schools that in many cases are being taken out of the hands of local government authorities, into the hands of, for profit, privately run academies.

We are seeing the running these institutions, being taken away from local and national government and put into the hands of private companies. And we've seen how the privatisation of gas, electricity, water and the rail network have gone. Large profits for the private sector while seeing continually rising costs and reduced customer care to us the consumers.

So the police not coming round to investigate a crime will be the least of our worries. If things carry on the way they are heading. Many of us won't have anything worth stealing.

Edited July 23, 2022 by 1of4

[I am Ram]

On 22/07/2022 at 09:32, Archied said:

Yep there’s always been a bit of a glitch where you get more punishment for stealing money from the rich than say rape or some such crime but there just seems to be such a push over the last few years for things to get more uneven, covid kind of nudged me into noticing it more and wondered if people are noticing it creeping in more and more in other areas of life, some people seem ok with it ,

yes I know it’s kind of always been there but it just seems so blatant and in your face nowadays and very few bat an eyelid 

Other aspects of life, like the climate change debate.The only solutions i'm seeing, favour the rich. I mean i believe we should all do our bit , but i'm not giving up my one big holiday a year, while being preached to by the rich, who fly 70+ times a year.

[Stive Pesley]

Are people genuinely surprised by this revelation?

Since the late 1970s the British people (and most western countries) have voted for people whose policies are to actively enrich their cronies, and make sure that us plebs are kept in our place

There is a very easy answer, but I fear the British public are just a bit too dim to see it

 

[Archied]

7 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Are people genuinely surprised by this revelation?

Since the late 1970s the British people (and most western countries) have voted for people whose policies are to actively enrich their cronies, and make sure that us plebs are kept in our place

There is a very easy answer, but I fear the British public are just a bit too dim to see it

 

You are part right in terms of people being too dim to see it but in fairness we are fed choices are the ballot box which are not really choices at all ,

I suppose I have too include myself as not too bright because I don’t see how any of this madness changes anytime soon,

watched with interest how many scream and complain that boris was driven out by the media but fail to notice he was driven in by the media in the first place 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Archied

[Grumpy Git]

What about the boss of P&O Ferries admitting to a Westminster committee that the company “broke employment law” when they sacked all their crews?

Has anyone seen the business brought to justice over it? Not only is the answer ‘no’, but even worse, it has come out that the Ministry of Defence has since given them a contract!

WTF?

[Stive Pesley]

4 hours ago, Archied said:

You are part right in terms of people being too dim to see it but in fairness we are fed choices are the ballot box which are not really choices at all ,

I suppose I have too include myself as not too bright because I don’t see how any of this madness changes anytime soon,

watched with interest how many scream and complain that boris was driven out by the media but fail to notice he was driven in by the media in the first place 

Well the answer to your question is interesting, as a couple of years back we had a party who offered a radically different vision to how things had to be. They recognised the cartels that were the media/government, miltary/industrial complex, government/corporate lobby etc - and they pledged to end it all and make the system work for the many and not the few

The media succeeded in convincing enough people that this guy was the enemy?!

Whether you like him or not as a person (let's not go there for the sake of the forum rules) is not the point - his ideas were popular and they are not going away. Next time we get that option, I hope that people are so sick of the way it is that they figure we have not much left to lose and give it a go

Edited July 25, 2022 by Stive Pesley

[Archied]

3 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Well the answer to your question is interesting, as a couple of years back we had a party who offered a radically different vision to how things had to be. They recognised the cartels that were the media/government, miltary/industrial complex, government/corporate lobby etc - and they pledged to end it all and make the system work for the many and not the few

The media succeeded in convincing enough people that this guy was the enemy?!

Whether you like him or not as a person (let's not go there for the sake of the forum rules) is not the point - his ideas were popular and they are not going away. Next time we get that option, I hope that people are so sick of the way it is that they figure we have not much left to lose and give it a go

If your talking about who / what I think you are talking about then yes , but let’s be honest the media did everything in its power to make him / them un electable and the party is in turmoil because to lots in it it’s more about getting into power than what you want to do if in government, 

as I say I’ve not got a clue how this changes anytime soon , it just feels that things will have to get extremely bad before people wake up

Edited July 25, 2022 by Archied

[Stive Pesley]

8 hours ago, Archied said:

as I say I’ve not got a clue how this changes anytime soon , it just feels that things will have to get extremely bad before people wake up

Things getting bad will help force change, and people will start to protest. Like the resistance to Poll Tax in the early 1990s, if enough of us get angry then change will have to happen. I've seen the new grass roots movement to get a million people to cancel their energy Direct Debits in October if the price cap hasn't been lowered.

https://dontpay.uk/

A simple "people power" idea that would really hurt the energy companies and force change. The internet is our friend - we can organise like never before

Energy, water and transport should all be nationalised industries. It's a long-standing travesty that they were ever gifted to private interests. Now our taxes still fund them, but the profits go to private companies, not reinvested back into the facilities.

These are incredibly popular policies with the electorate - but trough-feeding politicians don't seem to want to go there for some reason. I wonder why - cough...lobbyists...cough

[cstand]

6 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Things getting bad will help force change, and people will start to protest. Like the resistance to Poll Tax in the early 1990s, if enough of us get angry then change will have to happen. I've seen the new grass roots movement to get a million people to cancel their energy Direct Debits in October if the price cap hasn't been lowered.

https://dontpay.uk/

A simple "people power" idea that would really hurt the energy companies and force change. The internet is our friend - we can organise like never before

Energy, water and transport should all be nationalised industries. It's a long-standing travesty that they were ever gifted to private interests. Now our taxes still fund them, but the profits go to private companies, not reinvested back into the facilities.

These are incredibly popular policies with the electorate - but trough-feeding politicians don't seem to want to go there for some reason. I wonder why - cough...lobbyists...cough

I used to work for British Steel when was it was nationalised used to sit around all day  doing as little as possible and that was too much for some union officials.

I know someone who used to work for BR who sometimes used to divert the Derby football special to Long Eaton just so his mates could get on there instead of Derby

So if you are thinking nationalisation 70s style it will never work.