Gareth Southgate

[i-Ram]

On 14/06/2022 at 21:45, Ghost of Clough said:

Picking a squad with 5 RBs and no LBs should be a stackable offence in itself.

He’s in a heap of trouble, and now you decide to pile on. His critics are mountain up daily.

[rynny]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Interested to know which performances you think have been some of the best in our history under him?

The most complete was probably the 4-0 win over Ukraine or the 2-0 win over Sweden in 2018.

Which others? The Germany result was good but it was still a 50-50 game (Germany arguably had the clearer chances prior to Kane finishing it off) and they were not a patch on their 2010-14 side.

The scrapped past Colombia on penalties, needed extra time (and a dodgy penalty) to beat Denmark. Had slender wins at home over Croatia and Czechs. Who am I missing?

Southgate hasn’t performed any better than Sven IMO. The only difference being under Sven we came across better opposition earlier in the tournaments.

And many argue we have a better squad now than we did between 2002-06. I don’t agree with that by the way. 

I would also add that in 2002 that if we had played Brazil later in the day and not in the blistering heat we would have beaten them. We were the better side for most of the game until we ran out of energy and had to sit in.

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, rynny said:

I would also add that in 2002 that if we had played Brazil later in the day and not in the blistering heat we would have beaten them. We were the better side for most of the game until we ran out of energy and had to sit in.

I actually rate England’s defeat to Portugal in 2006 as one of the best performances I’ve seen.

We spent a big chunk of that game with 10 men and we were the better side. Owen Hargreaves was superb.

At the time I felt we were as good as any other side out there. I don’t think that is the case right now.

[Sparkle]

I think Southgate is very lucky to still be in the job 

Anyone who doesn’t play a left back at left back is just opening up the defensive formation against decent opponents and we haven’t played many of them ! - again two substitutes in the final minute of extra time to take and miss penalties to lose a final was nuts in my opinion. At the last World Cup we actually looked dangerous from set pieces and now that has totally disappeared and we look clueless. Harry Kane has been left on his own to make the best passes in a game and get on the end of them because no one else is brave enough to get in the six yard box but we do let Saka and Stirling run down the line stop and come backwards a lot to a full back near the half way line - is it any wonder we don’t score goals ? 
we simply have no good style or positive pattern 

[Rammy03]

12 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

If there was a tournament it would already have started so what we are seeing is broadly the energy level that we would see in a typical wc or euros. 

You can't compare this to a typical world cup or euros. These 4 games have just been randomly thrown on the end of the season this year because there is nowhere else in the calendar to play them. Major tournaments are properly prepared for.

[Rammy03]

11 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Interested to know which performances you think have been some of the best in our history under him?

The most complete was probably the 4-0 win over Ukraine or the 2-0 win over Sweden in 2018.

Which others? The Germany result was good but it was still a 50-50 game (Germany arguably had the clearer chances prior to Kane finishing it off) and they were not a patch on their 2010-14 side.

The scrapped past Colombia on penalties, needed extra time (and a dodgy penalty) to beat Denmark. Had slender wins at home over Croatia and Czechs. Who am I missing?

The win away in Spain in 2018 was very good, as was the win against Croatia at home in 2018. Good performances in the qualifiers, most goals scored in a calendar year. There has undoubtedly been good performances and Southgate deserves credit, his England team has given us some great nights and memories.

[Anon]

And now my impression of a Liverpool fan,

"TRENTTRENTTRENTTRENTTRENTTRENTTRENT....." continue like that for about 8 hours solid.

I know it's natural for club fans to be biased towards their own players, we do this to an extent with Tomori, but as usual the scousers really take this irritating habit to a completely different level.

[Day]

I’m not Southgate out, but I’m not Southgate in either, I just find his football a little dull and uninspiring despite reaching the Euro’s final. 

As for recent results, ok the Nations League is just meaningless friendlies….unless you make the final, at the same time the result the other night was the worst home results for 90+ years. Southgate won’t be surprised by the stick he’s getting, even whilst experimenting you wouldn’t want that on your CV.

The disappointing thing was, not the lack of a left back, the team consisted of players that you would consider to be on the fringes of the team, you would expect them to go out and impress in a World Cup year, run through brick walls. 

If we was to get rid, which seems unlikely, not sure who exactly you would bring in. It really wouldn’t make any sense to do it now with only 2 games left until the World Cup, not enough time for a new manager to get his ideas across.

If we fail to get out the group stages, I would imagine he will resign rather than be pushed, he’s already spoke about willing to go if he’s not wanted. 

There isn’t any obvious choice that’s waiting in the wings, Lampard and Gerrard will both manage England at some point, both wouldn’t leave top PL jobs to take it on at this stage in their careers. 

[Bwash_Ram]

[Ambitious]

Southgate has earned the right to take England to the World Cup. If he bombs that competition then we can have this conversation. 

If he gets to another final then it would be hard. I think the talent of this team is talked up far too much, honestly. We don't have anything like the talent base we had in previous years and for the large part we've been far more successful. It might be because football has been utterly cruel for a while, but I couldn't give a rat's testicle about the World Cup in the middle of December. 

Derby will be playing for the most part and I'll be far more focused on that, as well as the NFL, than the World Cup. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

You can't compare this to a typical world cup or euros. These 4 games have just been randomly thrown on the end of the season this year because there is nowhere else in the calendar to play them. Major tournaments are properly prepared for.

Last euros (Gareth Southgates finest hour) started early June after prem league finished 23 May. 

This year the Premier league finished on the 22nd May and we are struggling early to mid June. 

So really not much difference at all. 

[Bris Vegas]

3 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

The win away in Spain in 2018 was very good, as was the win against Croatia at home in 2018. Good performances in the qualifiers, most goals scored in a calendar year. There has undoubtedly been good performances and Southgate deserves credit, his England team has given us some great nights and memories.

I didn’t include the Spain game as it was a glorified friendly. We actually got battered in the game as well, but we were incredibly prolific on the counter and held out at the back.

My opinion on the Nations League aka glorified friendlies is well known.

Qualifiers are a joke too.

 

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, David said:

I’m not Southgate out, but I’m not Southgate in either, I just find his football a little dull and uninspiring despite reaching the Euro’s final. 

As for recent results, ok the Nations League is just meaningless friendlies….unless you make the final, at the same time the result the other night was the worst home results for 90+ years. Southgate won’t be surprised by the stick he’s getting, even whilst experimenting you wouldn’t want that on your CV.

The disappointing thing was, not the lack of a left back, the team consisted of players that you would consider to be on the fringes of the team, you would expect them to go out and impress in a World Cup year, run through brick walls. 

If we was to get rid, which seems unlikely, not sure who exactly you would bring in. It really wouldn’t make any sense to do it now with only 2 games left until the World Cup, not enough time for a new manager to get his ideas across.

If we fail to get out the group stages, I would imagine he will resign rather than be pushed, he’s already spoke about willing to go if he’s not wanted. 

There isn’t any obvious choice that’s waiting in the wings, Lampard and Gerrard will both manage England at some point, both wouldn’t leave top PL jobs to take it on at this stage in their careers. 

Could you see many Premier League teams taking a punt on Southgate should he leave England?

I think most would find him uninspiring. 

 

[Leeds Ram]

Southgate shouldn't be sacked until after the world cup, I'm not his biggest fan but to get to a semi final and a final is a major achievement. The squad in midfield and the forward areas are in the top bracket and are as good as anyone although too often we do look stodgy going forward. The weakness is the defensive area for me where teams can unpick us if we aren't set up precisely. Anything less than a semi final and he should probably be shown the door I think. Tactically, southgate isn't a fantastic manager and has really lost both the semi final of the world cup and the final of the euros because of his decision making.  Despite this, his motivational skills clearly being above par and whilst we start slowly in tournaments generally we get better as time goes on. 

[Rammy03]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

I didn’t include the Spain game as it was a glorified friendly. We actually got battered in the game as well, but we were incredibly prolific on the counter and held out at the back.

My opinion on the Nations League aka glorified friendlies is well known.

Qualifiers are a joke too.

 

Well if that's the case then you're reducing the sample size of games to the two major tournaments we've had under Southgate.

We played well in the group stages of the world cup, the last game against Belgium we put out a second string side. The game against Columbia we were ok. Sweden was a good performance.

Croatia we were good in the first half and then they grew into the game. They were better than us at the time, simple as that. They had some good players in that team at top clubs who were far more experienced. Their midfield was better than anything that we could have put out. So I don't understand why people think we should have beaten Croatia and blame Southgate for us not doing so. Yes it was a great opportunity but we just weren't quite good enough to take it, regardless of the manager. 

The euros in the group stages we played ok, not fantastic. The game against Scotland was poor. But we played well against Croatia and got the result against the Czech Republic.

Germany I thought was a great performance. It might have been a 50/50 game but that's what it's like against these top teams in a major tournament. You can't expect us to be playing them off the park. And who cares, we won. We actually beat Germany in a major tournament and Southgate deserves credit.

We followed it up by a fantastic display against Ukraine. Denmark we were easily the better side. Italy first half we were excellent and then we allowed them back into the game but still only lost on penalties. 

So overall I'm not sure what people's problem is with Southgate. We have played well in most of the games we've played and importantly got the results.

I'd say the only game where he can be questioned is the euros final. We were at Wembley, we were 1-0 up and Italy were absolutely clueless. They didn't know what to do. We should've gone for it there and then and drove home the advantage. But as time went on Italy grew into the game and we seemed to retreat. The decisions on penalty takers were also a bit odd.

But nevertheless Southgate has completely changed the atmosphere around the England team and is the most successful manager since Sir Alf Ramsey. For that, he deserves great credit. 

[Bris Vegas]

23 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

Well if that's the case then you're reducing the sample size of games to the two major tournaments we've had under Southgate.

We played well in the group stages of the world cup, the last game against Belgium we put out a second string side. The game against Columbia we were ok. Sweden was a good performance.

Croatia we were good in the first half and then they grew into the game. They were better than us at the time, simple as that. They had some good players in that team at top clubs who were far more experienced. Their midfield was better than anything that we could have put out. So I don't understand why people think we should have beaten Croatia and blame Southgate for us not doing so. Yes it was a great opportunity but we just weren't quite good enough to take it, regardless of the manager. 

The euros in the group stages we played ok, not fantastic. The game against Scotland was poor. But we played well against Croatia and got the result against the Czech Republic.

Germany I thought was a great performance. It might have been a 50/50 game but that's what it's like against these top teams in a major tournament. You can't expect us to be playing them off the park. And who cares, we won. We actually beat Germany in a major tournament and Southgate deserves credit.

We followed it up by a fantastic display against Ukraine. Denmark we were easily the better side. Italy first half we were excellent and then we allowed them back into the game but still only lost on penalties. 

So overall I'm not sure what people's problem is with Southgate. We have played well in most of the games we've played and importantly got the results.

I'd say the only game where he can be questioned is the euros final. We were at Wembley, we were 1-0 up and Italy were absolutely clueless. They didn't know what to do. We should've gone for it there and then and drove home the advantage. But as time went on Italy grew into the game and we seemed to retreat. The decisions on penalty takers were also a bit odd.

But nevertheless Southgate has completely changed the atmosphere around the England team and is the most successful manager since Sir Alf Ramsey. For that, he deserves great credit. 

Southgate is the most successful since Sir Alf on paper.

But that is like saying David Moyes was more successful at Man Utd than at West Ham because his win % was higher. Context is needed.

I think most are disappointed because the World Cup was an exceptional chance. We reached the semi-final by finishing second in the group and then facing only Colombia and Sweden.

Croatia were a good side, but they also found themselves in a semi-final having beaten Poland and Russia on penalties. I mean, they also avoided all the best teams like France, Belgium, Brazil, Portugal and Spain.

I don’t have anything against Southgate. I just think he is mediocre and I think this current England set-up is decent but lacking in top quality. Combine them both and we will likely fall the moment we play a top six in the world side.

 

[Day]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Could you see many Premier League teams taking a punt on Southgate should he leave England?

I think most would find him uninspiring. 

Not many no, but wouldn’t rule out a few being interested. 

It’s a weird one as he went 4 years without a job after Boro which was his first job, was lucky to get the U21’s job really, now if he was to leave after the World Cup you’re looking at almost 14 years having not worked in club football.

Wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up with a job at the FA in some capacity after and never manage again.

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, David said:

Not many no, but wouldn’t rule out a few being interested. 

It’s a weird one as he went 4 years without a job after Boro which was his first job, was lucky to get the U21’s job really, now if he was to leave after the World Cup you’re looking at almost 14 years having not worked in club football.

Wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up with a job at the FA in some capacity after and never manage again.

Same could be asked of Joachim Low. He had a subpar managerial career before getting the Germany gig after being assistant. How instrumental was he? He won a World Cup, but Germany’s performances since 2016 have been really poor so was he just fortunate to inherit one a golden generation in Germany with Heynckes and Klopp at Bayern and Dortmund? It arguably looks that way.

Low was in talks to become Fenerbahce boss. If he was that good, he’d surely be waiting out for a much better one.

Flick, Deschamps, Luis Enrique and Van Gaal had all won a top European league before becoming national team boss. Southgate doesn’t really match up to any of them in that regard.

 

[Rammy03]

57 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Same could be asked of Joachim Low. He had a subpar managerial career before getting the Germany gig after being assistant. How instrumental was he? He won a World Cup, but Germany’s performances since 2016 have been really poor so was he just fortunate to inherit one a golden generation in Germany with Heynckes and Klopp at Bayern and Dortmund? It arguably looks that way.

Low was in talks to become Fenerbahce boss. If he was that good, he’d surely be waiting out for a much better one.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Given the different nature of international management I don't know why Gareth doesn't rotate his coaching team the same way he does the team. 

Steve Holland might be great at training slow methodical simple passing football but we need some different ideas and input for varying tactics.