POLL: Nottingham Forest's return season to the Premier League

[Mostyn6]

Okay, so they made it. Their manager is clearly a good manager. Their owner seems willing to throw some cash around.

Rivalries and Hopes aside, using your brain as a neutral, please try! Can they survive? Will the plummet back down? Are there going to be 3 worse teams? For them to stay up, they'd need at least one of the already existing PL teams to drop. Surely Everton and Leeds cannot be as bad next season. Will Brentford or Brighton lose their talented manager(s) and suffer relegation.

Part of me thinks Nottingham Forest will do alright, but I can't see 3 definite relegation teams.

[Crewton]

Not much point until we see who they sign, but I've gone for Relegation because that's what the bookies are currently saying.

[Asanovic70]

Recruitment is key. I've never known a team with so many loans in key areas get promoted, and we had three in our 2019 defeat. You look at Brentford and whilst they changed the front-line regularly, reinvesting in replacements,  the defence & midfield tended to suffer less disruption. They only had one loan during their promotion season & that was more of a back-up (Reid)

In 3x of the last 4 seasons, two promoted seasons have gone straight back down, 4x in six of the last seasons. Only once have all three stayed up (2017-2018) which included Newcastle who retained a lot of players from the PL.

9/18 of the last play-off winners have gone straight back down the following season including ourselves. Three sides finishing 4th have won the play-offs & two, including QPR, were relegated the season after. 

If they retain most of their loans & manage to buy a few outright, they stand a chance. Lose Garner, and then they are already a weaker team. 

In fairness to them, I think they are a better managed side, more fluent, energetic & free-scoring than we were under Billy Davies. That offers them a chance.

But I'm going for relegation. Cooper has not managed in the PL despite his excellent run in the FAC. Parker has more experience & Silva has been sacked twice, and once at a club with more resources (Everton). I think Bournemouth could surprise. They have a few players remaining from their last stay in the PL, and Brooks should return after his illness.

[bimmerman]

They'll stay up. Owner will throw money at it

[Andicis]

Down. There are almost no ''bad'' teams, left in the Premier League. The likes of Everton who nearly went down have multi million pound squads full of players who have played at the very top level. I can see it coming down to Fulham, Bournemouth, Leeds and Forest as being the strugglers. Hopefully we'll get to see the double header of Leeds and Forest relegation to coincide with our glorious Championship return... maybe I'm dreaming. 

[Rammy03]

They're not a yo yo club like Norwich. They will spend. It's impossible to conclusively say how they will do without knowing what their squad will be. They will have to retain their loan players which I think they mostly can do but they'll have to cough up some money which will inevitably eat into their transfer budget. Whatever we say about them the fact is they are a big club and players will want to go there. These types of clubs tend to do well, you look at Leeds and Aston Villa as examples. When we went up in 2007 we were a shambles from top to bottom. Board, manager and players. That will never happen again. So as long as Forest get the recruitment right they can stay up. But its crucial that they keep the core of this side together and then add to it, otherwise they will struggle.

[Bris Vegas]

If they stay up, who goes down instead?

Bournemouth look an obvious one. Right now Fulham have a better squad and Marco Silva has performed well up there before.

But let’s assume Forest finish above Fulham too.

Then it’s a case of another team falling. Obvious candidates being Brentford, Southampton, Leeds or Palace. 

All have far better players currently.

Fulham threw £100m at it the other year and still went down.

Forest may do the same. What they should be looking at though is becoming a yo-yo team. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Rammy03 said:

They're not a yo yo club like Norwich. They will spend. It's impossible to conclusively say how they will do without knowing what their squad will be. They will have to retain their loan players which I think they mostly can do but they'll have to cough up some money which will inevitably eat into their transfer budget. Whatever we say about them the fact is they are a big club and players will want to go there. These types of clubs tend to do well, you look at Leeds and Aston Villa as examples. When we went up in 2007 we were a shambles from top to bottom. Board, manager and players. That will never happen again. So as long as Forest get the recruitment right they can stay up. But its crucial that they keep the core of this side together and then add to it, otherwise they will struggle.

How have Leeds done well? They had the first season where Bielsa's style caught teams off guard, then they scraped clear of relegation by the skin of their teeth. ''yo yo clubs'' like Norwich consistently get automatic promotion. 

[Day]

Anyone that goes up will be favourites to come back down, that’s just how it is.

They would see this poll as sour grapes, however bookies odds will reflect this, unless they make major waves in the transfer window this summer.

Saying that, I wouldn’t like to call it, Leeds did alright the first season they went up, Brentford have done well to stay up so it’s not entirely impossible this won’t be an immediate return to the Championship.

What will be interesting is how many players from Olympiacos will Stavros try to send over, funnelling some of that cash back over there, if he leaves it to Cooper they have a chance. Decent manager, won’t have many problems trying to bring players in and they have to as there is a mini rebuild required.

The money from this season and any possible parachute payments should ensure they never see the bottom half of the Championship again. 

What price tag will Gibson put on Spence, seeing him celebrate promotion at Wembley will hurt those in the North East that didn’t want him there….shame.

[Carnero]

With Spence, Lowe, Garner, Zinkernagel & Davis all on loan they might well need to spend the best part of £35-40m just to keep the current squad together, never mind improve. Going to be tough.

[Kernow]

I think we would've struggled if we went up under Lampard purely because we'd have had to spend a lot of money just to keep the same team we'd have got promoted with. Forest are in the same boat. They've relied heavily on the loan players, so I think they'll think it's pretty important to try and keep as many of them as possible.

The three most influential, Spence, Davis and Garner are going to be very expensive. Spence has been linked to 20 odd million pound bids, Davis is likely to be £10mil at least, and Garner probably isn't attainable if ten Hag really does want to look at him with a view to including him in United's first team.

That's a lot to spend just to have the same team, which currently hasn't got enough quality to stay up. That's not even a dig at Forest, I don't think these days there are many Championship teams who could stay up without adding to their squad.

If they don't get the loanees back, they'll have to spend on someone else. No guarantees in the PL whether someone is going to be a hit or a flop, no matter how expensive they are. I think their recruitment team are going to have to get it spot on or it may be a bit of a long season for them.

EDIT: While I was typing, @Carnero seemed to make the same point as me in significantly fewer words!

Edited May 30, 2022 by Kernow

[JfR]

52 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

They'll stay up. Owner will throw money at it

By "throw money at it" do you mean on players or refs?

[Day]

3 minutes ago, Kernow said:

I think we would've struggled if we went up under Lampard purely because we'd have had to spend a lot of money just to keep the same team we'd have got promoted with. Forest are in the same boat. They've relied heavily on the loan players, so I think they'll think it's pretty important to try and keep as many of them as possible.

The three most influential, Spence, Davis and Garner are going to be very expensive. Spence has been linked to 20 odd million pound bids, Davis is likely to be £10mil at least, and Garner probably isn't attainable if ten Hag really does want to look at him with a view to including him in United's first team.

That's a lot to spend just to have the same team, which currently hasn't got enough quality to stay up. That's not even a dig at Forest, I don't think these days there are many Championship teams who could stay up without adding to their squad.

If they don't get the loanees back, they'll have to spend on someone else. No guarantees in the PL whether someone is going to be a hit or a flop, no matter how expensive they are. I think their recruitment team are going to have to get it spot on or it may be a bit of a long season for them.

EDIT: While I was typing, @Carnero seemed to make the same point as me in significantly fewer words!

If ten Hag is considering playing James Garner, he’s going to get boo’d quicker than Moyes ?

Forest could do a lot worse than signing him, but Man United ambitions should be somewhat higher than Premier League survival. 

[Kernow]

1 minute ago, David said:

If ten Hag is considering playing James Garner, he’s going to get boo’d quicker than Moyes ?

Forest could do a lot worse than signing him, but Man United ambitions should be somewhat higher than Premier League survival. 

Think it's been mentioned that ten Hag wanted to look at Garner in the summer before deciding on his future. I reckon he'll probably end up back at Forest on loan, but now they're in the PREMIERSHIP, they're restricted to 2 domestic loans. If they want the band back together, they're going to have to spend quite a bit.

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Kernow said:

Think it's been mentioned that ten Hag wanted to look at Garner in the summer before deciding on his future. I reckon he'll probably end up back at Forest on loan, but now they're in the PREMIERSHIP, they're restricted to 2 domestic loans. If they want the band back together, they're going to have to spend quite a bit.

Don’t you start!

Not a chance he’s being serious on Garner, this is nothing more than a new manager, everyone has a clean slate. That and they can justify the inflated transfer fee they will slap on his head.

[Asanovic70]

Looking back, Mason Mount was a key player for Derby, and soon after became both a mainstay for Chelsea & a starter for England. I always liked Tomori & was surprised he didn't succeed at Chelsea upon his return.

I really think the lad Garner drove this Forest side on.  Listened to the match commentary, and saw Garner's crunching challenge on Quest & it was also his delivery that led to the own goal. I'd not be surprised if he makes an international breakthrough, maybe in the next couple of seasons, if their new coach opts to keep him & he gets a chance to win a place in the United side/squad. If Forest manage to keep him, as I say, that can only be of benefit to them. 

According to an article from the Manchester Evening News, Corberan tried to sign him last season for Huddersfield & PL sides enquired this mid-season.

 

 

[Bris Vegas]

48 minutes ago, David said:

Anyone that goes up will be favourites to come back down, that’s just how it is.

They would see this poll as sour grapes, however bookies odds will reflect this, unless they make major waves in the transfer window this summer.

Saying that, I wouldn’t like to call it, Leeds did alright the first season they went up, Brentford have done well to stay up so it’s not entirely impossible this won’t be an immediate return to the Championship.

What will be interesting is how many players from Olympiacos will Stavros try to send over, funnelling some of that cash back over there, if he leaves it to Cooper they have a chance. Decent manager, won’t have many problems trying to bring players in and they have to as there is a mini rebuild required.

The money from this season and any possible parachute payments should ensure they never see the bottom half of the Championship again. 

What price tag will Gibson put on Spence, seeing him celebrate promotion at Wembley will hurt those in the North East that didn’t want him there….shame.

I think Leeds were a different case. They should have gone up the year before but for a late collapse and then they easily won the league. They then spent on quality players like Raphinha.

Forest are nowhere near that level. The same could be said of Brentford.

Remove the loan players and Forest aren’t any stronger than say Blackburn Rovers. They rode momentum in a poor Championship and had some top quality players in on loan.

Of the three going up they are the weakest. That doesn’t mean they can’t improve. But I wouldn’t put them in the same bracket as Leeds, Brentford and even Sheffield United who made gradual progression. Forest’s promotion came out the blue.

The only other sides who did something similar was probably Blackpool or Palace. The PL, however, is at a different level now. 

I don’t think it’s sour grapes. I actually think it’s a fresh change to see Forest promoted. I think they are in for a loooong season.

They will probably start off with a run of games like Everton (H), Southampton (A) and Villa at (H), competing well but picking up one or two points only. Then they’ll have like City away and get battered, then they’ll have somebody like Brentford and Bournemouth at home (dubbed a winnable game). They’ll lose that and then it’ll hit them that they are out of their depth. The owner will panic, sack Cooper after about nine games and replace him with a foreigner nobody has heard of… Or Sam Allardyce.

I can see it.

[Mostyn6]

I think most sensible Forest fans looking at this will see rational opinions, no sour grapes. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, Asanovic70 said:

Recruitment is key. I've never known a team with so many loans in key areas get promoted, and we had three in our 2019 defeat. You look at Brentford and whilst they changed the front-line regularly, reinvesting in replacements,  the defence & midfield tended to suffer less disruption. They only had one loan during their promotion season & that was more of a back-up (Reid)

In 3x of the last 4 seasons, two promoted seasons have gone straight back down, 4x in six of the last seasons. Only once have all three stayed up (2017-2018) which included Newcastle who retained a lot of players from the PL.

9/18 of the last play-off winners have gone straight back down the following season including ourselves. Three sides finishing 4th have won the play-offs & two, including QPR, were relegated the season after. 

If they retain most of their loans & manage to buy a few outright, they stand a chance. Lose Garner, and then they are already a weaker team. 

In fairness to them, I think they are a better managed side, more fluent, energetic & free-scoring than we were under Billy Davies. That offers them a chance.

But I'm going for relegation. Cooper has not managed in the PL despite his excellent run in the FAC. Parker has more experience & Silva has been sacked twice, and once at a club with more resources (Everton). I think Bournemouth could surprise. They have a few players remaining from their last stay in the PL, and Brooks should return after his illness.

He has plenty of getting relegated, then getting promoted with an 100 million squad and a 60 million wage bill.  Stealing a living.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, David said:

Anyone that goes up will be favourites to come back down, that’s just how it is.

They would see this poll as sour grapes, however bookies odds will reflect this, unless they make major waves in the transfer window this summer.

Saying that, I wouldn’t like to call it, Leeds did alright the first season they went up, Brentford have done well to stay up so it’s not entirely impossible this won’t be an immediate return to the Championship.

What will be interesting is how many players from Olympiacos will Stavros try to send over, funnelling some of that cash back over there, if he leaves it to Cooper they have a chance. Decent manager, won’t have many problems trying to bring players in and they have to as there is a mini rebuild required.

The money from this season and any possible parachute payments should ensure they never see the bottom half of the Championship again. 

What price tag will Gibson put on Spence, seeing him celebrate promotion at Wembley will hurt those in the North East that didn’t want him there….shame.

They had the chance to take him back in January or re loan him for a fee or even flog him then.  Always found it a bit odd.