May Contain Nuts Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Addingham Ram said: Keogh made a grave misjudgement, and yes he should have known better. He then won a court case against the club, so in the eyes of the law he was wrongly treated. He did no such thing. He won some internal PFA/EFL process, it was never tested by law or even any standard disciplnary process. 16 minutes ago, Addingham Ram said: Unfortunately, technically, he didn't do that much wrong. What Lawrence (and indeed Bennett) did was much worse, but he appears to have been forgiven by many. They faced the legal sanctions and showed contrition. Lawrence has been forgiven because he got his head down and tried his best for Derby, and aside from one moment of madness on the pitch he's shown that he has taken on board some lessons from everything that's happened. I don't think Bennett has been forgiven because despite his initial contrition he's continued to act like a bit of nob towards us. Edited May 2, 2022 by Coconut's Beard Foreveram, Steve How Hard?, David Graham Brown and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, Addingham Ram said: Unfortunately, technically, he didn't do that much wrong. What Lawrence (and indeed Bennett) did was much worse, but he appears to have been forgiven by many. Lawrence who admitted his errors and then stayed in January when he could surely have left? Premier ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 7 minutes ago, angieram said: He didn't win a court case against the club. It was an EFL players' tribunal, which surprisingly found in favour of - the player! (I ought to have this statement on copy and paste as I have to repeat it so many times.) But he won his case…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Addingham Ram said: Most people would have claimed in similar circumstances They really wouldn't. Most would appreciate that they weren't sacked on the spot, most would have accepted any offer of reparation that was presented to them over having to find another job with a cloud hanging over them, not whined about the treatment of others in comparison. Edited May 2, 2022 by Coconut's Beard Steve How Hard?, Foreveram, David Graham Brown and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: Lawrence who admitted his errors and then stayed in January when he could surely have left? So Macca, are you saying getting in the back of a car with a drunk driver is as bad as being the drunk driver? We have been over this a 100 times but for Keogh to be sacked and the other 2 basically get away with it was ludicrous….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Coconut's Beard said: He did no such thing. He won some internal PFA/EFL process, it was never tested by law or even any standard disciplnary process. They faced the legal sanctions and showed contrition. Lawrence has been forgiven because he got his head down and tried his best for Derby, and aside from one moment of madness on the pitch he's shown that he has taken on board some lessons from everything that's happened. I don't think Bennett has been forgiven because despite his initial contrition he's continued to act like a bit of nob towards us. It could be argued that Keough wasn’t given the opportunity to get his head down and try to do his best for Derby as he was sacked. Maybe, and we’ll never know, if he’d been kept on he might have battled back to fitness as quickly as he could and demonstrated his commitment to Derby even more so than Lawrence has. Jimbo Ram and RoyMac5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 Just now, Coconut's Beard said: They really wouldn't. Most would appreciate that they weren't sacked on the spot, most would have accepted any offer of reparation that was offered to them, not whined about the treatment of others in comparison. Really ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: It could be argued that Keough wasn’t given the opportunity to get his head down and try to do his best for Derby as he was sacked. Maybe, and we’ll never know, if he’d been kept on he might have battled back to fitness as quickly as he could and demonstrated his commitment to Derby even more so than Lawrence has. He was given the opportunity, so it would be a stupid argument. Nobody wanted to sack Keogh, he made it impossible not to because he sensed he could make money put of the situation. Earn a measly £28-52k a year and have your rehabilitation paid for or go on the dole and pay for it yourself. Hmm, tough choice. He turned it down. Balls to him. Edited May 2, 2022 by Coconut's Beard Premier ram, Foreveram and David Graham Brown 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Really ? Yes, and so would you if it was a real situation you were facing, not a hypothetical based on what a millionaire footballer did. Edited May 2, 2022 by Coconut's Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Coconut's Beard said: They really wouldn't. Most would appreciate that they weren't sacked on the spot, most would have accepted any offer of reparation that was offered to them, not whined about the treatment of others in comparison. Genuine question, what reparation was Keogh offered prior to taking his case to the tribunal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: It could be argued that Keough wasn’t given the opportunity to get his head down and try to do his best for Derby as he was sacked. Maybe, and we’ll never know, if he’d been kept on he might have battled back to fitness as quickly as he could and demonstrated his commitment to Derby even more so than Lawrence has. Exactly ? May Contain Nuts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Coconut's Beard said: Yes, and so would you if it was a real situation you were facing, not a hypothetical based on what a millionaire footballer did. Thanks for telling me what I would do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Tamworthram said: Genuine question, what reparation was Keogh offered prior to taking his case to the tribunal? Not sure ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Genuine question, what reparation was Keogh offered prior to taking his case to the tribunal? A wage, even though he made himself incapable of doing his job, as opposed to no wage. Free access to rehabilitation facilities instead of having to pay for them out of his own pocket. If he'd have accepted that, regained fitness, gone on to play for Derby again then he'd have massive respect from every single Derby fan. Again, compare and contrast to Davies risking playing in the final game of last season. Could have completely destroyed any chance of him continuing as a player, decided that the club was more important than the individual. We all love Davies. He would NEVER have taken the same course of action as Keogh. Edited May 2, 2022 by Coconut's Beard Premier ram, David Graham Brown, Foreveram and 2 others 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 Just now, Coconut's Beard said: A wage, as opposed to no wage. Free access to rehabilitation facilities instead of having to pay for them out of your own pocket. So, let me get this straight. If your employer threatened to sack you if you didn’t accept a significant pay cut, you wouldn’t consider taking your case to a tribunal if you believed the dismissal would be unfair? The rehabilitation is possibly a valid point but maybe not. If the club hadn’t unfairly dismissed him then he would still have had access to those facilities. Jimbo Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 9 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Thanks for telling me what I would do ? You're welcome, but continue to delude yourself all the same. David Graham Brown and Jimbo Ram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 As club captain, Keogh should have stopped the lads from driving at all, let alone condoning it by jumping in. Phoenix, Premier ram, Foreveram and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buckley’s Dog Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) I think we can all agree that Curtis Davies is twice the man, twice the leader and more of an inspiration than Keogh will ever be. Let’s move on and just appreciate the fact that we have a man of honesty, integrity and intelligence at the heart of our defence and club. ❤️ Edited May 2, 2022 by Steve Buckley’s Dog Typo Miggins, Steve How Hard?, RoyMac5 and 4 others 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 A shame a few posters have allowed this brilliant thread to degenerate into a pointless argument about a player who is no longer with the Club. Tamworthram, Mucker1884, Steve How Hard? and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: So, let me get this straight. If your employer threatened to sack you if you didn’t accept a significant pay cut, you wouldn’t consider taking your case to a tribunal if you believed the dismissal would be unfair? The rehabilitation is possibly a valid point but maybe not. If the club hadn’t unfairly dismissed him then he would still have had access to those facilities. If my employer said there was an alternative to sacking me despite the fact that my own actions had lead to me being incapable of performing my duties I'd bite their bloody hand off. At worst I'd accept their offer and in the meantime look for a other job to move to once I'd recovered. I'm quite a humble person though. The last thing I'd do is blame other people for my actions and compare their treatment to mine. Clearly there are quite a few sharks out there who aren't who'd somehow justify telling them to bugger off and claiming against them. If they randomly came to me and said we're in a bit of a state financially, would you mind carrying out your duties to the same standard you are on a lower wage for a couple of years while we sort our poo out, despite me doing nothing wrong and being capable of performing my role to the same standard I had been doing, it'd be a different story. Quite frankly it's ridiculous how many excuses people are putting forward for Keogh. Clearly his act has worked wonders. Edited May 2, 2022 by Coconut's Beard David Graham Brown, angieram and RoyMac5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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