Rooney shouldn’t be allowed to bring in the players he wants

[May Contain Nuts]

Rest assured we won't be 'buying garbage for millions' any time soon.

[Ram-Alf]

11 minutes ago, TomSaint said:

In my opinion, yes the club should set boundaries to prevent our previous downfall of buying garbage for millions.

But at the same time you have to back the manager.

Kirchner wants to keep Rooney so thats the style of play he wants for the club.

I'm hoping this is an era of us recruiting well and not having our pants down in the transfer windows ?

You're wealthy enough to appoint a Chef for your meals, The Chef gets to choose what you eat, He serves you Sushi and Salad, You don't like that and tell the Chef you want Pie and Chips, The Chef says he's in charge of cooking...you sack the Chef for failing in your choices.

It's the same with a D.O.F. the Manager HAS to work with the player/s of someone else's choosing, If the D.O.F. gets to choose the Manager then things could work, In England the Manager is the focal point.

[richinspain]

My thoughts are that at the end of the day the "manager" should be "managing" the team. He should be doing all the things necessary for the team to function, obviously with the help of his coaching and backroom staff. I don't think that he should be out scouting players or agreeing fees and contract terms. It should be a team effort, with the manager ultimately responsible for the style of play and having the final word on signings. Nigel Clough did a pretty good job of signings etc., whether you think he was a good coah or not.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

33 minutes ago, davenportram said:

Why not? It has worked for Liverpool, 

 

lomg term success is a result of a string philosophy with stable leadership.

Liverpool have a sporting director, who's renowned for being an outstanding operator. I'm all for managers having a say in signings; I just don't think they should be the one leading the process.

[jimtastic56]

ED said on the radio post QPR, that when Cocu was appointed , Mel told them “There would be no more expensive signings”. 2 weeks later Beilik came for £10 million. Liam Rosenior was the “Championship Expert” assisting Cocu. Rooney inherited him . Will Liam be allowed to pick players ?. Do we need a Div1 expert now?

[davenportram]

5 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Liverpool have a sporting director, who's renowned for being an outstanding operator. I'm all for managers having a say in signings; I just don't think they should be the one leading the process.

But does the director of football puck the players? Or does he do the leg work to sign the players the manager requests?

[davenportram]

21 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

You're wealthy enough to appoint a Chef for your meals, The Chef gets to choose what you eat, He serves you Sushi and Salad, You don't like that and tell the Chef you want Pie and Chips, The Chef says he's in charge of cooking...you sack the Chef for failing in your choices.

It's the same with a D.O.F. the Manager HAS to work with the player/s of someone else's choosing, If the D.O.F. gets to choose the Manager then things could work, In England the Manager is the focal point.

The chef should be creating a menu from the dishes you want to eat. That’s his job. The DOF should be providing signings from those selected by the manager.

[turbo]

Some good points raised, I think once we know who is staying then we could identify areas, then a team made up of maybe head of recruitment, a chief scout, a head of performance and analysis should look at a few players, show them to the manager and the manager can go watch or have the scouts go watch those players and narrow it down. Yes Rooney should be involved or even have the final say but not be just allowed to bring in who he wants, obviously if his contacts can help bring in recruits then great but the club should be involved, we have a chance hopefully to rebuild the club we want to get it right and not be in a mess if a manager goes

Wayne said “I want to be Manchester United manager. I know I am not ready now but I have to plan everything I do to make sure one day it will happen.”
 

With this in mind it looks obvious to me he is tailoring his style of play in readiness for the big job which is fair enough, the trouble is that style is much more effective with elite international players rather than league 1 players. It’s going to be interesting I really hope everything comes together. I suppose I should worry about the sale going through first though?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Just now, davenportram said:

But does the director of football puck the players? Or does he do the leg work to sign the players the manager requests?

No idea tbf. If I had to guess, I'd say the manager says "We need a winger. Go out and find one for me", and Edwards and the recruitment team do the legwork.

I think that's very different to having Rooney essentially acting as head of recruitment and personally calling players like he did last summer. That obviously worked out quite well for us, but I don't think it's suitable in the long run.

[Crewton]

If the manager sits down with the DoF/head of recruitment/whatever and agrees the key characteristics that he wants his players to have, and gets the final say on whether we sign a player that the DOF has found, I see no reason why it shouldn't work. The overall philosophy obviously has to be set by the Board, to ensure continuity, but from the point we're starting out, I'd want Rooney to be heavily involved in establishing that philosophy. It would probably be a different case if we have a new manager at the start of next season. In any case, I imagine Gary Cook will work closely with Rooney next season and we won't have such a senior appointment as a DoF until the financial restrictions on us are eased. 

[Ram-Alf]

1 minute ago, davenportram said:

The chef should be creating a menu from the dishes you want to eat. That’s his job. The DOF should be providing signings from those selected by the manager.

And this is the crux of the matter, Will the Manager be allowed to supply a list, Or will the Manager have to work with players not of his choosing?

A couple of older views here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39011014

https://www.90min.com/posts/6272660-profiling-all-15-directors-of-football-in-the-premier-league

[Arsene Titman]

2 hours ago, turbo said:

Might be an unpopular opinion but if the takeover all goes smoothly then I hoping we go about things differently.

The successful model applied by the majority of successfully promoted clubs involves a football director who overseas a team that delivers recruitment based on the clubs blueprint for success. The idea behind this is that if the manager leaves or is shown the door you are not left with a group of players that the next manager doesn’t want so you have to start out all over again, you need to be able to keep consistency if a piece of the cog is taken out of the club.

Whether finances will allow the club to run like this I don’t know

Why would players recruited by a football director be any more likely to approve of a new manager?

 

[RIMBAUD]

What clubs use data to select the signings. I don’t mean “Oo he runs a lot and is good in the tackle “ I mean full data systems like the folk at notts county. (That’s what their owners do as a business)

genuine question. ?

[Steve How Hard?]

I'm not great lover of the director of football model. I totally agree with the  continuing philosophy behind it but for me it's a case of too many cooks can spoil the broth.

There has to be a chemistry between the manager and the d.o.f  and that isn't always gonna be the case. Besides the fact it is another expense on the wage bill that we can ill afford at this present time.  

[Turk Thrust]

4 hours ago, turbo said:

Might be an unpopular opinion but if the takeover all goes smoothly then I hoping we go about things differently.

The successful model applied by the majority of successfully promoted clubs involves a football director who overseas a team that delivers recruitment based on the clubs blueprint for success. The idea behind this is that if the manager leaves or is shown the door you are not left with a group of players that the next manager doesn’t want so you have to start out all over again, you need to be able to keep consistency if a piece of the cog is taken out of the club.

Whether finances will allow the club to run like this I don’t know

Don’t follow. The next manager may well not want the group of players inherited. The Director will no doubt help choose the manager who fits in with the club style but the new manager will only know about the players’ skills, style and mental processes etc after a few weeks of matches and training

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, RIMBAUD said:

What clubs use data to select the signings. I don’t mean “Oo he runs a lot and is good in the tackle “ I mean full data systems like the folk at notts county. (That’s what their owners do as a business)

genuine question. ?

Brentford.

[Anag Ram]

4 hours ago, turbo said:

Might be an unpopular opinion but if the takeover all goes smoothly then I hoping we go about things differently.

The successful model applied by the majority of successfully promoted clubs involves a football director who overseas a team that delivers recruitment based on the clubs blueprint for success. The idea behind this is that if the manager leaves or is shown the door you are not left with a group of players that the next manager doesn’t want so you have to start out all over again, you need to be able to keep consistency if a piece of the cog is taken out of the club.

Whether finances will allow the club to run like this I don’t know

Good thread and will spark lots of opinion.

For my part I think the importance of the relationship between the manager and players can’t be overemphasised.

The players need a boss they respect and who they will follow through thick and thin.

The manager will buy based not only on skill but on character. Can this player fulfill my vision?

Will they be a positive or a negative influence in the changing room?

Can this group develop a team spirit better than any in the league?

I’m not sure a head of recruitment, director of football or whatever can make that kind of call.

Only a manager will know the type of player needed for the job.

[RIMBAUD]

2 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Brentford.

Then we should do the same shouldn’t we. 
 

if it’s good enough for them …

[turbo]

12 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said:

I'm not great lover of the director of football model. I totally agree with the  continuing philosophy behind it but for me it's a case of too many cooks can spoil the broth.

There has to be a chemistry between the manager and the d.o.f  and that isn't always gonna be the case. Besides the fact it is another expense on the wage bill that we can ill afford at this present time.  

I thinks that’s why it’s so pivotal getting the right d.o.f, get it right and your in business 

Looking at some of the appointments there is such a mixture from various backgrounds I would not know where to begin but like some of said financial restraints may hinder employing someone in this kind of role

 

Arsenal: Raul Sanllehi (Head of Football Relations)

Aston Villa: Johan Lange (Sporting Director)

Bournemouth: Richard Hughes (Technical Director)

Brighton: Dan Ashworth (Technical Director)

Burnley: Mike Rigg (Technical Director)

Crystal Palace: Dougie Freedman (Sporting Director)

Everton: Marcel Brands (Director of Football)

Fulham: Tony Khan (Director of Football Operations)

Leicester: Jon Rudkin (Director of Football)

Liverpool: Michael Edwards: (Sporting Director)

Manchester City: Txiki Begiristain (Director of Football)

Norwich: Stuart Webber (Football Director)

Southampton: Ross Wilson (Director of Football Operations)

Tottenham: Rebecca Caplehorn (Director of Football Operations)

Watford: Andy Scott (Sporting Director)

West Ham: Mario Husillos (Director of Football)

Wolves: Kevin Thelwell (Sporting Director)

 

[Steve How Hard?]

19 minutes ago, turbo said:

I thinks that’s why it’s so pivotal getting the right d.o.f, get it right and your in business 

Looking at some of the appointments there is such a mixture from various backgrounds I would not know where to begin but like some of said financial restraints may hinder employing someone in this kind of role

 

Arsenal: Raul Sanllehi (Head of Football Relations)

Aston Villa: Johan Lange (Sporting Director)

Bournemouth: Richard Hughes (Technical Director)

Brighton: Dan Ashworth (Technical Director)

Burnley: Mike Rigg (Technical Director)

Crystal Palace: Dougie Freedman (Sporting Director)

Everton: Marcel Brands (Director of Football)

Fulham: Tony Khan (Director of Football Operations)

Leicester: Jon Rudkin (Director of Football)

Liverpool: Michael Edwards: (Sporting Director)

Manchester City: Txiki Begiristain (Director of Football)

Norwich: Stuart Webber (Football Director)

Southampton: Ross Wilson (Director of Football Operations)

Tottenham: Rebecca Caplehorn (Director of Football Operations)

Watford: Andy Scott (Sporting Director)

West Ham: Mario Husillos (Director of Football)

Wolves: Kevin Thelwell (Sporting Director)

 

I agree, if you get it right then it should comfortably pay for itself. I would however still be against deploying it under our current financial circumstances. Let WR use the money to recruit another player.