Do you get enough sleep (7 myths and 7 truths)?

[Bob The Badger]

I wrote an email for my list today that I thought some of you people may enjoy

-------------

I’ve just read a quite remarkable and scary book called Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker a Professor of Neuroscience at UC Berkeley.

Everybody knows sleep is good for you and not enough can hinder all forms of mental and physical health, but I had no clue how crippling a lack of sleep can be.

Walker doesn’t stray into hearsay and on the occasions where there’s a correlation between poor sleep and poor health rather than causation he goes to great lengths to explain that.

Here are some of the urban myths and scientifically proven facts from the book that may make you sit up and take notice, especially if you have kids and want to safeguard their long-term health.

Myth # 1 - We need less sleep as we get older

Nope, it just seems that way because sleep function declines as we age.

Consequently, we presume struggling to get to sleep, or waking up earlier than we used to means we don’t need it.

We do.

We all need 7 to 8 hours.

Myth # 2 - Some people just don’t need much sleep

Ok, so this is somewhat of a volte-face from the last myth because there are some people who can get away with 6-hours and not see a negative impact on their mental and physical health.

How many?

About the same amount as those who get struck by lightning every year.

Myth # 3 -  Our metabolism slows down in middle age

It doesn’t.

There is no discernible drop off in the rate of metabolism before you get into your 60s’ and even then it's not a certainty.

However, things we normally associate with ageing and a slowing metabolism like weight gain, reduced memory function and higher blood pressure, can be directly attributed to a lack of quality sleep.

Myth # 4 - If I miss a couple of hours I may as well miss the entire night

A lack of sleep impacts us exponentially, not incrementally.

This means that only getting 5 hours of sleep isn’t a bit worse than 6 hours, it’s a lot worse.

And only getting 4 hours a ducking lot worse.

This is why the Guinness Book of World Records removed sleep deprivation records because they can cause long-lasting physical and psychological harm.

It’s also why very few countries (although the US is one) still use sleep deprivation tactics on prisoners.

Myth # 5 - You can catch up on sleep at the weekend.

It’s no good getting up after 6 hours of sleep all week and then bingeing at the weekend.

Your body cannot catch up on lost sleep and the negative effects are cumulative.

Myth # 6 - Sleeping tablets will help you sleep

Since they’re called sleeping tablets, they really should, right?

Alas, sleeping tablets don’t help you sleep.

They just sedate you in the same way as a lot of alcohol does with the same deleterious impact.

Speaking of which....

Myth # 7 - A few glasses of wine will help me sleep

Alcohol offers some benefits in terms of relaxing you for a very short period of time.

But it's all downhill after that.

Alcohol disrupts sleep because your body is working hard beating off what it sees as an invader (alcohol is a poison) at a time when it has more important things to do.

Alcohol raises your core temperature which promotes wakefulness as does the accompanying dehydration and needing to go to the bathroom.

It obliterates REM sleep (this is the reason why we remember so little after heavy drinking as that is when memories are formed) and sedates us rather than helps us sleep.

That's why nobody bounces out of bed after a skinful feeling fresh and rested.

Truth #1 - A lack of sleep can be worse than alcohol for driving

Ten times more people die in accidents attributable to tired drivers than through alcohol and drug-related deaths combined.

Going 16-hours without sleep and then driving is as dangerous as being legally drunk.

But, most accidents aren’t caused by people falling asleep at the wheel in the traditional sense.

They are caused by people being slower to react than normal and making poorer decisions because of fatigue.

Plus, there is something called microsleeps that may only last two seconds or less, are commonplace and indiscernible to the person having them.

A two-second microsleep doesn’t seem like a lot, but at 30 mph it can take you across four lanes of traffic before you snap out of it....or die.

Truth # 2 - Forget losing weight if you’re short on sleep

When you’re body is short of sleep it prefers to burn muscle and preserve fat because it’s dealing with an existential threat.

Also, a shortage of sleep suppresses the production of the hormone leptin, which tells you when you have eaten enough.

And for the trifecta of weight-losing crapiness, the prefrontal cortex (responsible for good decision making) is overridden by the hypothalamus which is insisting on two burgers, fries and a big duck off shake because it’s in survival mode.

Truth # 3 -  Kids shouldn’t be allowed to fall asleep watching TV

You shouldn’t put a child to bed after he or she has fallen asleep, but as they are doing so.

Otherwise, you can reduce their ability to self-nurture causing sleep difficulties later in life.

Truth # 4 -  Kids shouldn’t be made to get up too early

Kids have an advanced circadian rhythm of about 3 hours, meaning that they’re owls, not larks.

Put another way, asking a kid to get up at 7 am for school is like asking an adult to get up and go to work at 4 am every day.

And it’s not just a question of pushing through it, their ability to learn is SEVERELY hampered for the first half of the day.

Experiments by schools in the US showed huge jumps in grade point averages when they pushed the school start day back.

Even so, kids are still made to get up too early because it fits with parents' and bus company schedules and it’s just the way we have always done things.

Truth # 5 - Pulling an all-night to learn is counterproductive

After as little as 15 hours awake the brain's ability to learn falls off a very steep cliff and the ability to absorb information degrades rapidly.

Also, a good night's sleep before learning is wasted if you then have poor sleep the following nights because it takes the brain at least 3 nights of sleep to move that learning into long term memory.

Truth # 6  - Don’t get a flu vaccine if you’ve had a bad night's sleep

Having a flu vaccine (and I presume this is the case with Covid, but the book came out in 2018, so I'm guessing) when you are sleep deprived can reduce its efficacy by as much as 50%.

Insufficient sleep suppresses the immune cell response.

Truth # 7 A warm bath before bedtime really does help you sleep

Not just because it relaxes you, but also because blood rushes to the surface of your body causing your core body temperature to drop (the opposite of the aforementioned alcohol).

Which is exactly what’s needed to sleep well.

This is the reason why if you are too hot in bed at night you may well stick your feet out from under the duvet.

This causes your feet to cool so your body reacts by sending lovely warm blood there and dropping your core temperature.

[mozza]

I nodded off, reading that.

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said:

This is why the Guinness Book of World Records removed sleep deprivation records because they can cause long-lasting physical and psychological harm

I didn't know that - but I do remember reading a science book years ago about how they proved if you force people to stay awake for long enough, eventually they start to have terrifying hallucinations - essentially waking nightmares

I digress but in the same book they also experimented with glasses that turned your vision upside down. If the test subjects wore them for long enough, their brain would correct itself and turn the image the right way up. Then if they took the glasses off it was like the whole world was upside down

 

Of course I may have dreamt all of the above ?

 

[Turk Thrust]

35 minutes ago, mozza said:

I nodded off, reading that.

I got as far as number three before my mind wandered off to imagining Derby winning promotion……….

[Eddie]

I never sleep for more than 5 hours or so a night, and haven't since I retired 4 years ago.

 

[ketteringram]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I never sleep for more than 5 hours or so a night, and haven't since I retired 4 years ago.

 

I'm not retired yet, and I probably average five hours sleep. Six would be a really good night. Whether I'm due to be working or not, doesn't seem to make any difference.

[maxjam]

I generally get about 6 hours at night - bed around 12:30am, up at 6:30am ish.  

I do enjoy a 'Spanish Siesta' after lunch though on the sofa, generally having about 90 mins early afternoon every day.

I have no trouble sleeping, if I'm still awake 2 mins after settling down I'd think I was suffering from insomnia ? 

I also never dream - well not any that I remember, not for years.

[Mucker1884]

12 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

I wrote an email for my list today that I thought some of you people may enjoy

-------------

I’ve just read a quite remarkable and scary book called Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker a Professor of Neuroscience at UC Berkeley.

Everybody knows sleep is good for you and not enough can hinder all forms of mental and physical health, but I had no clue how crippling a lack of sleep can be.

Walker doesn’t stray into hearsay and on the occasions where there’s a correlation between poor sleep and poor health rather than causation he goes to great lengths to explain that.

Here are some of the urban myths and scientifically proven facts from the book that may make you sit up and take notice, especially if you have kids and want to safeguard their long-term health.

Myth # 1 - We need less sleep as we get older

Nope, it just seems that way because sleep function declines as we age.

Consequently, we presume struggling to get to sleep, or waking up earlier than we used to means we don’t need it.

We do.

We all need 7 to 8 hours.

Myth # 2 - Some people just don’t need much sleep

Ok, so this is somewhat of a volte-face from the last myth because there are some people who can get away with 6-hours and not see a negative impact on their mental and physical health.

How many?

About the same amount as those who get struck by lightning every year.

Myth # 3 -  Our metabolism slows down in middle age

It doesn’t.

There is no discernible drop off in the rate of metabolism before you get into your 60s’ and even then it's not a certainty.

However, things we normally associate with ageing and a slowing metabolism like weight gain, reduced memory function and higher blood pressure, can be directly attributed to a lack of quality sleep.

Myth # 4 - If I miss a couple of hours I may as well miss the entire night

A lack of sleep impacts us exponentially, not incrementally.

This means that only getting 5 hours of sleep isn’t a bit worse than 6 hours, it’s a lot worse.

And only getting 4 hours a ducking lot worse.

This is why the Guinness Book of World Records removed sleep deprivation records because they can cause long-lasting physical and psychological harm.

It’s also why very few countries (although the US is one) still use sleep deprivation tactics on prisoners.

Myth # 5 - You can catch up on sleep at the weekend.

It’s no good getting up after 6 hours of sleep all week and then bingeing at the weekend.

Your body cannot catch up on lost sleep and the negative effects are cumulative.

Myth # 6 - Sleeping tablets will help you sleep

Since they’re called sleeping tablets, they really should, right?

Alas, sleeping tablets don’t help you sleep.

They just sedate you in the same way as a lot of alcohol does with the same deleterious impact.

Speaking of which....

Myth # 7 - A few glasses of wine will help me sleep

Alcohol offers some benefits in terms of relaxing you for a very short period of time.

But it's all downhill after that.

Alcohol disrupts sleep because your body is working hard beating off what it sees as an invader (alcohol is a poison) at a time when it has more important things to do.

Alcohol raises your core temperature which promotes wakefulness as does the accompanying dehydration and needing to go to the bathroom.

It obliterates REM sleep (this is the reason why we remember so little after heavy drinking as that is when memories are formed) and sedates us rather than helps us sleep.

That's why nobody bounces out of bed after a skinful feeling fresh and rested.

Truth #1 - A lack of sleep can be worse than alcohol for driving

Ten times more people die in accidents attributable to tired drivers than through alcohol and drug-related deaths combined.

Going 16-hours without sleep and then driving is as dangerous as being legally drunk.

But, most accidents aren’t caused by people falling asleep at the wheel in the traditional sense.

They are caused by people being slower to react than normal and making poorer decisions because of fatigue.

Plus, there is something called microsleeps that may only last two seconds or less, are commonplace and indiscernible to the person having them.

A two-second microsleep doesn’t seem like a lot, but at 30 mph it can take you across four lanes of traffic before you snap out of it....or die.

Truth # 2 - Forget losing weight if you’re short on sleep

When you’re body is short of sleep it prefers to burn muscle and preserve fat because it’s dealing with an existential threat.

Also, a shortage of sleep suppresses the production of the hormone leptin, which tells you when you have eaten enough.

And for the trifecta of weight-losing crapiness, the prefrontal cortex (responsible for good decision making) is overridden by the hypothalamus which is insisting on two burgers, fries and a big duck off shake because it’s in survival mode.

Truth # 3 -  Kids shouldn’t be allowed to fall asleep watching TV

You shouldn’t put a child to bed after he or she has fallen asleep, but as they are doing so.

Otherwise, you can reduce their ability to self-nurture causing sleep difficulties later in life.

Truth # 4 -  Kids shouldn’t be made to get up too early

Kids have an advanced circadian rhythm of about 3 hours, meaning that they’re owls, not larks.

Put another way, asking a kid to get up at 7 am for school is like asking an adult to get up and go to work at 4 am every day.

And it’s not just a question of pushing through it, their ability to learn is SEVERELY hampered for the first half of the day.

Experiments by schools in the US showed huge jumps in grade point averages when they pushed the school start day back.

Even so, kids are still made to get up too early because it fits with parents' and bus company schedules and it’s just the way we have always done things.

Truth # 5 - Pulling an all-night to learn is counterproductive

After as little as 15 hours awake the brain's ability to learn falls off a very steep cliff and the ability to absorb information degrades rapidly.

Also, a good night's sleep before learning is wasted if you then have poor sleep the following nights because it takes the brain at least 3 nights of sleep to move that learning into long term memory.

Truth # 6  - Don’t get a flu vaccine if you’ve had a bad night's sleep

Having a flu vaccine (and I presume this is the case with Covid, but the book came out in 2018, so I'm guessing) when you are sleep deprived can reduce its efficacy by as much as 50%.

Insufficient sleep suppresses the immune cell response.

Truth # 7 A warm bath before bedtime really does help you sleep

Not just because it relaxes you, but also because blood rushes to the surface of your body causing your core body temperature to drop (the opposite of the aforementioned alcohol).

Which is exactly what’s needed to sleep well.

This is the reason why if you are too hot in bed at night you may well stick your feet out from under the duvet.

This causes your feet to cool so your body reacts by sending lovely warm blood there and dropping your core temperature.

 

[Bob The Badger]

9 hours ago, maxjam said:

I generally get about 6 hours at night - bed around 12:30am, up at 6:30am ish.  

I do enjoy a 'Spanish Siesta' after lunch though on the sofa, generally having about 90 mins early afternoon every day.

I have no trouble sleeping, if I'm still awake 2 mins after settling down I'd think I was suffering from insomnia ? 

I also never dream - well not any that I remember, not for years.

You can mitigate the effects of not enough at night by napping in the day. In fact daytime napping (biphasic sleep) is closer to how we were designed to exist from a health standpoint.

The island of Ikaria in Greece maintained siestas when the rest of Greece fazed them out. They now call is the island where people forget to die because the average life expectancy is so much higher.

We all dream in REM sleep, but we only tend to remember them when we have them close to waking up.

[Bob The Badger]

42 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

 

Scroll on by.

[JoetheRam]

Solid 9 or 10 hours a night for me.

It's why I'm so slim and good looking.

Don't know how people fill these 18/19 hour days they have - I'm bored by half 8.

 

[ramit]

The right mattress can cut down your need for sleep by one to two hours per night.

i was getting back and hip aches from our old mattress and so spent quite a bit of money on a new bed, but it is even worse than the old one.  It's a spring mattress, the maker adjusted the springs for me, from harder to softer, yet the problem persists.  Need to do some serious research.

[Coneheadjohn]

Got the book on audible a while back and it’s really interesting.

 

[Bob The Badger]

On 21/03/2022 at 17:47, ramit said:

The right mattress can cut down your need for sleep by one to two hours per night.

i was getting back and hip aches from our old mattress and so spent quite a bit of money on a new bed, but it is even worse than the old one.  It's a spring mattress, the maker adjusted the springs for me, from harder to softer, yet the problem persists.  Need to do some serious research.

How on earth could a good mattress cut down on your *need* to sleep?

It may make it easier to sleep or help you to fall/stay asleep, but your need isn't impacted by an object.

[ramit]

8 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

How on earth could a good mattress cut down on your *need* to sleep?

It may make it easier to sleep or help you to fall/stay asleep, but your need isn't impacted by an object.

i have experienced this before, a worn out bed replaced by a new one, resulting in better rest during the night and thereby needing less sleep.  i don't know what you find so objectionable.  We need certain things, a roof over our heads, clothes on our back, etc.

[Bob The Badger]

24 minutes ago, ramit said:

24 minutes ago, ramit said:

i have experienced this before, a worn out bed replaced by a new one, resulting in better rest during the night and thereby needing less sleep. 

Of course, if your mattress is keeping you awake or waking you up, then that's a problem. But the actually amount doesn't change.

 

1 hour ago, ramit said:

 i don't know what you find so objectionable.  We need certain things, a roof over our heads, clothes on our back, etc.

I have no clue what you're talking about unless your name is Abraham Maslow.  In which case, right on brother. 

[ramit]

9 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

Of course, if your mattress is keeping you awake or waking you up, then that's a problem. But the actually amount doesn't change.

 

I have no clue what you're talking about unless your name is Abraham Maslow.  In which case, right on brother. 

In case you are being argumentative for the sake of it, i will rephrase.  i need less sleep on a better mattress, this is factual, not up for debate.  i have heard the same from others.

[Bob The Badger]

7 hours ago, ramit said:

In case you are being argumentative for the sake of it, i will rephrase.  i need less sleep on a better mattress, this is factual, not up for debate.  i have heard the same from others.

A good mattress can possibly help you get to sleep and stay asleep, so perhaps you were/are in bed longer when you have a crappy mattress because you're awake tossing and turning.

What you're saying is no different to somebody saying I need less sleep when my room is cool, or I need less sleep when I'm not stressed about anything because both of those things make sleep easier.

But they don't change the actual amount you need because that's fixed at birth, they just make it easier to acquire it.

I think we're somewhat at cross purposes.

 

[ramit]

9 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

A good mattress can possibly help you get to sleep and stay asleep, so perhaps you were/are in bed longer when you have a crappy mattress because you're awake tossing and turning.

What you're saying is no different to somebody saying I need less sleep when my room is cool, or I need less sleep when I'm not stressed about anything because both of those things make sleep easier.

But they don't change the actual amount you need because that's fixed at birth, they just make it easier to acquire it.

I think we're somewhat at cross purposes.

 

Aha, we can both be right.  i need less time in bed on a good mattress.

Now that we have reached an accord, i think i need a lie down.