Crewton Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 7 hours ago, Ramarena said: Yes. Sworn enemies is very extreme. That maybe the case on the Russian side, but not so much on the NATO side. If NATO wanted to attack Russia it would have already. There’s been plenty of opportunities. Now Finland is a NATO member as well, extending the NATO border with Russia…….and nothing has happened. Russia would not attack Ukraine, NATO would not attack Russia. There could be a chance of lasting peace, many lives saved. Who would turn their nose up at that? Russia and the USA are a mere 53 miles apart at their closest point and yet neither has yet attacked the other across the Bering Strait. Why isn't Putin demanding the demilitarisation of Alaska if he's worried about invasion? It's just a convenient justification for reasserting Russian Imperial control over 'Little Russia '. Ramarena 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 15 hours ago, Ramarena said: Yes. Sworn enemies is very extreme. That maybe the case on the Russian side, but not so much on the NATO side. If NATO wanted to attack Russia it would have already. There’s been plenty of opportunities. Now Finland is a NATO member as well, extending the NATO border with Russia…….and nothing has happened. Russia would not attack Ukraine, NATO would not attack Russia. There could be a chance of lasting peace, many lives saved. Who would turn their nose up at that? If those are the terms for peace, then NATO is living in some cocky fantasy land and doesn't want peace at all. They know full well that Russia will never accept those conditions. This is not Finland, it is Russia's historic back yard, partly populated by their own. We will see how cocky everyone still is in a few months. Edited June 19 by ramit typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 18 minutes ago, ramit said: If those are the terms for peace, then NATO is living in some cocky fantasy land and doesn't want peace at all. They know full well that Russia will never accept those conditions. This is not Finland, it is Russia's historic back yard, partly populated by their own. We will see how cocky everyone still is in a few months. I've put it in my Diary, All holidays cancelled and I've ordered 100 sheets of lead for my Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Ooh, temper temper. Reggie Greenwood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, ramit said: If those are the terms for peace, then NATO is living in some cocky fantasy land and doesn't want peace at all. They know full well that Russia will never accept those conditions. This is not Finland, it is Russia's historic back yard, partly populated by their own. We will see how cocky everyone still is in a few months. I agree, Russia won’t agree to these terms at present. But my post wasn’t really about Russia, it was to show that despite the, I support peace comments. When shown a route for peace, you fail to support, or agree with it, whether it’s realistic or not. Now that position is fine. It puts you in line with many of us, who don’t see a realistic path that either side is prepared to take for peace. Although you are on the other side of the fence, so to speak. Just please don’t try to portray people you disagree with as pro-war, whilst hiding behind the, I’m for peace words. Everyone can see through it, its pretty obvious. Edited June 19 by Ramarena Crewton and Reggie Greenwood 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Anyone read this? https://www.amazon.com/Nuclear-War-Scenario-Annie-Jacobsen/dp/0593476093 Comforting to know that once it starts we will have about 72 minutes left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 7 hours ago, Ramarena said: I agree, Russia won’t agree to these terms at present. But my post wasn’t really about Russia, it was to show that despite the, I support peace comments. When shown a route for peace, you fail to support, or agree with it, whether it’s realistic or not. Now that position is fine. It puts you in line with many of us, who don’t see a realistic path that either side is prepared to take for peace. Although you are on the other side of the fence, so to speak. Just please don’t try to portray people you disagree with as pro-war, whilst hiding behind the, I’m for peace words. Everyone can see through it, its pretty obvious. That really is laughable logic. My call for peace is based on realistic chances of negotiating it, what you call a route for peace is no such thing and you know it. Lets stay real here, shall we, for peace to be brokered both sides must make some concessions, to reject that is to support ongoing war, so no, we are not in line with each other on this matter at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 56 minutes ago, ramit said: That really is laughable logic. My call for peace is based on realistic chances of negotiating it, what you call a route for peace is no such thing and you know it. Lets stay real here, shall we, for peace to be brokered both sides must make some concessions, to reject that is to support ongoing war, so no, we are not in line with each other on this matter at all. If you say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, ramit said: That really is laughable logic. My call for peace is based on realistic chances of negotiating it, what you call a route for peace is no such thing and you know it. Lets stay real here, shall we, for peace to be brokered both sides must make some concessions, to reject that is to support ongoing war, so no, we are not in line with each other on this matter at all. Phone calls. Defence minister...Hello is that Comrade Putin Putin...да Defence minister...Mr Putin we've been talking to Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy and he's accepted our peace deal Putin...So we get to keep the land we've stolen Defence minister...да Putin...😂😂😂 the dumb sh!t does he know who he's dealing with Defence minister...😂 I know...and get this...he's not joining NATO either Putin...😂😂😂😂😂...fcuking hell it was all worth it comrade, Now pull all the forces out of Ukraine and once the Ukrainian Army has pulled right back we'll go back in and take more of the Ukraine. Defence minister...mission accomplished and I'll tell the Generals...one last thing Mr Putin shall we cancel all the top floor hotel rooms? Putin... Нет...we may still need them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 2 hours ago, ramit said: That really is laughable logic. My call for peace is based on realistic chances of negotiating it, what you call a route for peace is no such thing and you know it. Lets stay real here, shall we, for peace to be brokered both sides must make some concessions, to reject that is to support ongoing war, so no, we are not in line with each other on this matter at all. I think you need to Google "Appeasement" Ramarena, Chester40 and Crewton 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 32 minutes ago, Wolfie said: I think you need to Google "Appeasement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 18 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said: Yes the 1938 Munich agreement. That went well …………… Ram-Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 5 hours ago, ramit said: If those are the terms for peace, then NATO is living in some cocky fantasy land and doesn't want peace at all. They know full well that Russia will never accept those conditions. This is not Finland, it is Russia's historic back yard, partly populated by their own. We will see how cocky everyone still is in a few months. I think that NATO's terms for peace are identical to those of Ukraine... Piss off out of the Ukrainian territory you annexed in 2014 (Crimea) and that which you invaded and occupied in 2022. Incidentally, how would you feel if Denmark wanted Iceland back again? It was Denmark's 'historical back yard', wasn't it? Ramarena and Crewton 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 If my next door neighbour invaded a chunk of my back garden, I'd be a bit miffed and I'd ask him to leave - if he refused, I might escalate to the point where I started throwing bricks at him....if someone came along and told me I should stop that and make peace with him, I really can't envisage a situation where I'd be happy for him to keep a part of my garden just to keep the peace..... Ramarena, Premier ram, Crewton and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 On 18/06/2024 at 06:00, ramit said: Crimea is not sovereign Ukrainian territory, it was transferred to Ukraine within the Soviet Union by Khrushchev for administrative purposes. When the Soviet Union ended, that decision ended with it. Ukraine's territorial integrity (including Crimea) was guaranteed by the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 - the Russian Federation agreed to it in exchange for the decommissioning of the Soviet nuclear weapons on Ukraine's territory. The referendum that followed Putin's invasion of the territory was a complete fraud, with justifications every bit as contrived as Hitler's justifications for invading Poland. Ramarena 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 8 hours ago, Crewton said: Ukraine's territorial integrity (including Crimea) was guaranteed by the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 - the Russian Federation agreed to it in exchange for the decommissioning of the Soviet nuclear weapons on Ukraine's territory. The referendum that followed Putin's invasion of the territory was a complete fraud, with justifications every bit as contrived as Hitler's justifications for invading Poland. Signed by Yeltsin, the guy who attacked the parliament with tanks, an obvious western stooge implanted after the coup to remove Gorbachev. The man who created the Russian oligarchs and plunged millions of Russians into abject poverty. Nothing he signed IMO is of any value apart from his appointment of Putin, heh. Ukraine has no historic claim for Crimea, it has been Russian most of the years since 1789. Who says the referendum was a fraud, the BBC? 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 9 hours ago, Eddie said: I think that NATO's terms for peace are identical to those of Ukraine... Piss off out of the Ukrainian territory you annexed in 2014 (Crimea) and that which you invaded and occupied in 2022. Incidentally, how would you feel if Denmark wanted Iceland back again? It was Denmark's 'historical back yard', wasn't it? Formerly Iceland was a Norwegian possession from 1380 until 1814, although administration and colonization was mainly carried out by Denmark because of the Kalmar union. Iceland was settled in 874. Iceland was not Denmark's historical back yard, not even taking into account the vastness of the Atlantic ocean dividing the two. But I get it, Eddie, you are pro NATO, fine, I still like you, just wish you would not have joined this discussion, is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) Before more jump into the ring to "set me straight" I will be clear. I do not support war as a means to an end under any circumstances. I understand Russian siege mentality based on NATO encroachment of their former areas of influence, they do make some valid points, at the same time I do not condone the military actions taken. I am anti NATO, anti American empire and all their lapdog governments, including my own. They are playing with fire against a strong and capable opponent that feels caged in with few options. True, I have considerably more sympathy for the Russian position, than the USA's. Call me what you wish. I will not be changing my mind. Edited June 19 by ramit typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) Putin is not too stable and the west is as always obsessive about retaining theyre status as the economic and military super power ,, what could possibly go wrong 🤷🏻♂️, may be being a bit daft here but Ukraine joining Europe and nato might possibly be felt as a similar threat to Cuba becoming allied with the Soviet Union years ago ? just to be clear , I don’t feel I have any answers but when I’m like that I’m always trying to ask questions and see what comes back Edited June 19 by Archied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, ramit said: Signed by Yeltsin, the guy who attacked the parliament with tanks, an obvious western stooge implanted after the coup to remove Gorbachev. The man who created the Russian oligarchs and plunged millions of Russians into abject poverty. Nothing he signed IMO is of any value apart from his appointment of Putin, heh. Stooge? He was elected effectively by the People 😂 "In 1990, he was elected chair of the Russian Supreme Soviet and in 1991 was elected president of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (RSFSR), becoming the first popularly-elected head of state in Russian history." Ukraine has no historic claim for Crimea, it has been Russian most of the years since 1789. Crimea belongs to the Tatars, if it belongs to anyone, another indigenous people subjected to deportation and genocide by the Soviet Union. They occupied Crimea for 350 years before the Viking scum stole it from them. Who says the referendum was a fraud, the BBC? 😄 The United Nations 🤫 Ramarena 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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