The Administration Thread

[Indy]

2 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

In terms of a civil case, I reckon the court needs to determine the facts or balance of probability for the following:

1) Did Derby attempt to gain an unfair advantage by breaching the rules? - Absolutely 

2) Did Derby gain more points as a result? - Debatable but, on the balance of probability I think an independent court would probably say yes.

All good for Boro so far but this is where the balance changes 

3) If Boro had finished sixth would they have reached the play off final? - Although we did it (by “cheating” don’t forget), by definition the team that scrapes into 6th place (don’t forget Boro’s end of season form) must be weaker than the team that finished 4th. So, on the balance of probability the answer has to be no

4) If they had reached the final would they have won? - As above, the team finishing 6th is, on paper, the weakest team and has only won the play off final in 10% of cases over the the last 20 years. So, on the balance of probability, the answer has to be no.

You could then go on to debate whether Boro would actually have gained financially or spent or the money if they had been promoted but it gets a bit complicated especially with parachute payments if they’d been relegated.

The Wycombe case shouldn’t even get to court. Yes, we avoided a points deduction last season by delaying submitting our amended P&S figures but, we complied with the extended deadline determined by the EFL so, no case to answer.

I think we should not concede ground we don’t have to. Administrators have been trying the is tactic in the hope of getting reciprocal movement from others, and all that’s happened is we’ve lost ground. 
 

Firstly, we don’t just concede that we gained an unfair advantage from breaking the rules. The stadium valuation was legit. The amortisation process was found to be I. The rules (although an acknowledged risk with losses being built up in the future). The panels specifically said there was no deliberate attempt to cheat. The only thing we breached was a trumped up charge that, in retrospect, looks like the EFL concocted for the sole purpose of meeting the criteria of their back room deal to enable Boro to take action against us. 
 

Secondly, the panel considering Boro’s attempt to be added as an interested party specifically says that if any financial advantage was gained by us, it didn’t translate into direct responsibility for Boro’s failures. If there was a case for compo for Boro, it was in the power of the independent panels to award it and they ruled against it. 
 

I agree that their final claims that they would have achieved anything had they got in the playoffs is so ludicrous it beggars belief. 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

To even be 25% it would have to be a debt, which by all the definitions I have seen, it isn't.

You are right .

This is about potential bidders not wanting to take the Boro/ Wycombe claims on as they stand 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, StaffsRam said:

I don’t think £££ would be an issue. I think we have enough to see out the season, and this would be settled well before we get anywhere near the end of the season. Administrators can prioritise court listings and once we’re in court the parasite claims aren’t going to hold water for more than 5 minutes. They’ll probably spend more time laughing at the claims than deciding to chuck them out.

We will see .

As I say the EFL have their own rules and are not ruled by courts 

[Ram-Alf]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So how in effect do the Administrators take it to court .

You sound like it’s just shelling peas 

They appoint a Lawyer...Nick De Marco ?‍♂️ who'll put papers in to the court asking for A B C or D to be heard asap, Time determined I don't know, But money talks, Those who tried to stop Brexit got Court time in no time.

As for shelling peas, If you have the Money you can buy a Pea farm.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Why should the ball be in Q ‘s court? Didn’t you tell me if Boro or Wycombe thought their interest were being prejudiced they could apply to the Court to remove the moratorium protection? Why haven’t they done that then?

and why instead has the Efl taken upon itself to help these two parasites prosecute their dodgy claims by threatening us with expulsion for daring to use the protection we are entitled to?

Time is against us, not against W/M. There are plenty of things W/M can do to take this forward or to protect their interests.  But they quite simply don’t need to just now. In trying to move this forward, Q is trying to push water uphill and so is EFl in their discussions with M/W

So EFl has said to Q: one way to address this is to have the claims heard. If you want that, we will try to fast track them

Q has not yet said ‘yes go for it’. Because they are risk averse and because if they lose it might be the end of our club and it might even be the end of their firm 

Edited February 4, 2022 by kevinhectoring

[Curtains]

Just now, kevinhectoring said:

Time is against us, not against W/M. There are plenty of things W/M can do to take this forward or to protect their interests.  But they quite simply don’t need to just now. In trying to move this forward, Q is trying to push water uphill and so is EFl in their discussions with M/W

So EFl has said to Q: one way to address this is to have the claims heard. If you want that, we will try to fast track them

Q has not yet said ‘yes go for it’. Because they are risk averse and because if they lose it might be the end of our club and it might even be end of their firm 

What in an EFL ruled arbitration kangaroo court 

[Archie]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

If you think about it Mel could sort this in 5 minutes. He drops the stadium price by 7 million to prospective new owners, that money pays off the blood sucking parasites and the takeover is good to go. But Mel's ego is as big as the Gibbon's so he would rather see the Rams go to the wall than end the feud he has with the joker. I hate the thought of Boro getting a penny but this could be resolved pretty quickly....

If I keep bothering you to give me some of your money. Say everyday I call twice and asks for it. When it gets to the point it becomes irritating, will you pay me? 

[WhiteHorseRam]

Have to say I have a bad feeling about this now.

[kevinhectoring]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

What in an EFL ruled arbitration kangaroo court 

Look at the amortisation dispute. In the first hearing we got a great result. In the second (LAP) we got an awful result. In the third (IDC, remedies) we got a good result. 
All hearings before what you describe as a kangaroo court 

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said:

Look at the amortisation dispute. In the first hearing we got a great result. In the second (LAP) we got an awful result. In the third (IDC, remedies) we got a good result. 
All hearings before what you describe as a kangaroo court 

The EFL ducked us mate 

[24Charlie]

So the EFL get off the fence in the only direction they can without being sued by Boro.

This absolutely stinks. The EFL get us to do their dirty work in making Middlesbrough leave them alone. So now we have no choice but to deal with the Smoggies either by the high court or arbitration allowing the EFL off the hook with Gibson.

Cowardly from the EFL.

 

[Jimbo Ram]

6 minutes ago, Archie said:

If I keep bothering you to give me some of your money. Say everyday I call twice and asks for it. When it gets to the point it becomes irritating, will you pay me? 

Don't get the scenario......Mel has left us in this position, he should find a solution. Reducing the asking price for the stadium or not asking anything would be nice. And he should pay the fees of the Administrators too.....

[JfR]

39 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

The responsible commercial solution is for you to withdraw your claim.

"Good faith" my arse

[i-Ram]

17 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So how in effect do the Administrators take it to court .

You sound like it’s just shelling peas 

I don't know the process Curtains, but it is straightforward, can be fast-tracked, and according to @Brailsford Ramwho is our (well, my) authority on this, the case should be heard over no more than 2 days. It won't be cheap, but better in my view than 1) entertaining getting round a table with Gibson and Couhig, and 2) chewing the fat and coming to some agreement that they will get something around mid-range in settlement of their spurious claims for £7m. 

[RoyMac5]

12 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

They appoint a Lawyer...Nick De Marco ?‍♂️ who'll put papers in to the court asking for A B C or D to be heard asap, Time determined I don't know, But money talks, Those who tried to stop Brexit got Court time in no time.

 

Didn't someone say that Administrators have the right/power to jump the queue for High Court dates?

[Mihangel]

Maybe I haven't dug enough in to the detail but have the EFL explained, at any point, why they believe that a claim from Wycombe could be against the club and not the EFL themselves. There is no plausible way that DCFC should be accountable for the processes not being followed last season, that is entirely within the remit of the EFL? No?

[jono]

The EFL have exposed themselves for the one eyed partisan warped organisation we have all come to know over the last 2 years. Their stance has the same bias as the “reluctant acceptance” of a verdict from their own arbiters. I really have lost faith in the spirit of sport. 

[StaffsRam]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Didn't someone say that Administrators have the right/power to jump the queue for High Court dates?

Hoskins said that himself.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I don't know the process Curtains, but it is straightforward, can be fast-tracked, and according to @Brailsford Ramwho is our (well, my) authority on this, the case should be heard over no more than 2 days. It won't be cheap, but better in my view than 1) entertaining getting round a table with Gibson and Couhig, and 2) chewing the fat and coming to some agreement that they will get something around mid-range in settlement of their spurious claims for £7m. 

We will see. .

Got to say at the moment I don’t think EFL will take ant notice of a Court decision.

They will just do something else. 

[RoyMac5]

51 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

The responsible commercial solution is for you to withdraw your claim.

Scumbag trying to make themselves out to be willing to negotiate and we're not helping. 

Stuff them, don't engage with them at all, do nothing to legitimise their claims.

There is NOTHING to negotiate.

Quantuma have taken stick, rightly at times, but not engaging with either of the two chancers is exactly the right way to deal with them. They wanted to 'Class cram' them without a word of hello, that's the best thing to do!

Edit: had forgotten of course legally they won't after receiving QC advice. Why can't this be pointed out?

Edited February 4, 2022 by RoyMac5