The Administration Thread

[Grumpy Git]

Whoever negotiated the £2M fee for Jozwiak needs a medal bigger than a barrel top.

Hope they're in charge of the PB process?

[Tyler Durden]

4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I don't know.  The statement of affairs in November put total transfer fees owed at just over £8million. It wasn't broken down that I know of but both the Polish internationals fees were being paid by instalments  so a fair chunk of that £8m outstanding at that time would have been for Jozwiak , who we have just sold for £2m.

And was expecting that answer which typifies all of the ITK bullpoo spouted on this thread. Quick to jump on someone to discredit their claims but totally unable to support their case with actual facts themselves. 

No one knows what the figured owed is simple as, but if you don't know yourself then why try to argue that it's not a figure quoted by another poster when fundamentally you don't know yourself either. 

[roboto]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

And was expecting that answer which typifies all of the ITK bullpoo spouted on this thread. Quick to jump on someone to discredit their claims but totally unable to support their case with actual facts themselves. 

No one knows what the figured owed is simple as, but if you don't know yourself then why try to argue that it's not a figure quoted by another poster when fundamentally you don't know yourself either. 

To be fair, I’d be inclined to agree with pistoldpete that we don’t owe £8m on Bielik, but it is hard to put an actual figure on it.

What we do know is that we’ve had Kristian for 3 years and he has 1 year left on his contract. Do you think we’d stack up all the payments into the last year of his contract? Surely we structured the deal to be more evenly spread out.

And it was confirmed that the payment that was put on hold by Arsenal when we went into admin has been paid since then. Probably through sales of other players.

Id estimate that we probably have closer to £2m left to pay for him still and if we go down we would probably be able to recoup that.

[Tyler Durden]

7 minutes ago, roboto said:

To be fair, I’d be inclined to agree with pistoldpete that we don’t owe £8m on Bielik, but it is hard to put an actual figure on it.

What we do know is that we’ve had Kristian for 3 years and he has 1 year left on his contract. Do you think we’d stack up all the payments into the last year of his contract? Surely we structured the deal to be more evenly spread out.

And it was confirmed that the payment that was put on hold by Arsenal when we went into admin has been paid since then. Probably through sales of other players.

Id estimate that we probably have closer to £2m left to pay for him still and if we go down we would probably be able to recoup that.

No one can put a figure on it as we DON'T KNOW. Unless the poster is claiming some inner sanctum ITK crap. That's my exact point which you have just supported by offering your own personal estimate.

I'm not going to argue against that as I don't know myself same as you and me and everyone else on the forum.

But you can't say it's not one figure when you don't know what figure it conclusively is.

Just say we owe some money still for Bielik. But don't go and discredit other posters guesstimates if you don't know yourself. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Tyler Durden

[Archied]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

No one can put a figure on it as we DON'T KNOW. Unless the poster is claiming some inner sanctum ITK crap. That's my exact point which you have just supported by offering your own personal estimate.

I'm not going to argue against that as I don't know myself same as you and me and everyone else on the forum.

But you can't say it's not one figure when you don't know what figure it conclusively is.

Just say we owe some money still for Bielik. But don't go and discredit other posters guesstimates if you don't know yourself. 

Not sure your right , you can know what’s wrong without knowing what’s right , 

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

Not sure your right , you can know what’s wrong without knowing what’s right , 

Who knows that's my point? The supposition by @roboto was that in their opinion it would be unlikely that we've stacked up all of the payments to the last year of his contract but do we know that? After all Morris stacked up all of the payments owed to HMRC before he bailed?

[ramboy63]

7 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I'm not really getting the wait till we see if we're a championship or League 1 club.  The debt remains and increases whatever league and if its left till May we have no team.  Leaving it till then would make no sense to any investor.  That's not the issue .  If it's true that the admin want 50 million, Half of which is their fee and MSD,  we are buggered.  With the cost of new contracts, loan fees, additional wages and agent fees for freebies, ground maintenance and back rent to Morris, plus additional transfer fees, payoffs etc still owing then 25-30 million is a correct offer to facilitate a satisfactory outcome for creditors.  Mels got to help out with the MSD loan by at least halving it and arranging the lease of the ground for the remainder with a handover on loan payment completion in a few years. If he does we get moving .  If we want 50 million upfront it is not happening.  

The first points you make are indeed correct the debt is the debt whichever league we end up in

However potential buyers are not going to stump up the same price for a team in a league lower,revenue is greatly reduced in TV and match day earnings,our crowds will fall to around 18-20K only likely to rise if we do get anywhere close to the top and pushing for promotion,away support will be low also apart from a few bigger clubs

If we had clarity which division we were going to play in next season i think a price and deal would of been made by now,but we are hanging on by a thread to the Championship and if we do survive the price will be higher

[RAM1966]

33 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Isn’t the only requirement for exiting administration an agreement from the creditors (or 75% of them by value) to a CVA. However, the EFL can deduct a further 15 points or kick us out the league if the CVA doesn’t meet their requirements or they don’t like the business plan? I can’t remember the rules on FFP/salary cap in L2 but I seem to recall he could inject as much money as he wanted and we wouldn’t fall foul of and rules but the EFL may not approve such a business plan.

For what reason other to punish us further, the stranglehold on our club has been appalling, between Gibson and tge EFL we've been hamstrung, even stopping Mel from selling..... 

Further punishments would have to be seen as beyond extreme and Ashley would have no quarms in Sueing the EFL....

[RAM1966]

5 minutes ago, ramboy63 said:

The first points you make are indeed correct the debt is the debt whichever league we end up in

However potential buyers are not going to stump up the same price for a team in a league lower,revenue is greatly reduced in TV and match day earnings,our crowds will fall to around 18-20K only likely to rise if we do get anywhere close to the top and pushing for promotion,away support will be low also apart from a few bigger clubs

If we had clarity which division we were going to play in next season i think a price and deal would of been made by now,but we are hanging on by a thread to the Championship and if we do survive the price will be higher

Finally, well explained, if we look like staying up the value of the club increases by around 50%.

Lets not forget Southampton was sold with £100M worth of debt taken on by the new owners who still paid £100m for the club...

[PistoldPete]

23 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

And was expecting that answer which typifies all of the ITK bullpoo spouted on this thread. Quick to jump on someone to discredit their claims but totally unable to support their case with actual facts themselves. 

No one knows what the figured owed is simple as, but if you don't know yourself then why try to argue that it's not a figure quoted by another poster when fundamentally you don't know yourself either. 

So its Ok for someone to say "ITK" as you put it that we owe £8m for Bielik when as a matter of fact we do not owe  that in total for all players we have ever signed? And not OK for someone to challenge that statement? I have supported the case but you choose to ignore it.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

So its Ok for someone to say "ITK" as you put it that we owe £8m for Bielik when as a matter of fact we do not owe  that in total for all players we have ever signed? And not OK for someone to challenge that statement? I have supported the case but you choose to ignore it.

It's OK to challenge a statement if you have a factual figure to challenge back with, not your own estimate which is what you're challenging the OP in the first place - like arguing over whose estimate is the best.

Both of you are guesstimating so both of you don't know what the absolute figure owed is. 

[Tamworthram]

15 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

For what reason other to punish us further, the stranglehold on our club has been appalling, between Gibson and tge EFL we've been hamstrung, even stopping Mel from selling..... 

Further punishments would have to be seen as beyond extreme and Ashley would have no quarms in Sueing the EFL....

I'm  not trying to justify why they might object, just saying they could. They might not like the idea of a business plan that includes a new owner trying to buy promotion. 

[roboto]

16 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

It's OK to challenge a statement if you have a factual figure to challenge back with, not your own estimate which is what you're challenging the OP in the first place - like arguing over whose estimate is the best.

Both of you are guesstimating so both of you don't know what the absolute figure owed is. 

You’re right that we are all estimating, but we can’t let a statement saying we still owe £8m on Bielik go unchallenged. No doubt some will take that estimate as correct, but as @PistoldPetementioned, the total sum of owed fees for players was circa £8m and since then we have sold plenty of playing staff to bring these owed fees down.

I made sure my estimate was clearly labelled as an estimate and my opinion. The original post was presented as fact.

[I know nuffin]

48 minutes ago, roboto said:

To be fair, I’d be inclined to agree with pistoldpete that we don’t owe £8m on Bielik, but it is hard to put an actual figure on it.

What we do know is that we’ve had Kristian for 3 years and he has 1 year left on his contract. Do you think we’d stack up all the payments into the last year of his contract? Surely we structured the deal to be more evenly spread out.

And it was confirmed that the payment that was put on hold by Arsenal when we went into admin has been paid since then. Probably through sales of other players.

Id estimate that we probably have closer to £2m left to pay for him still and if we go down we would probably be able to recoup that.

Question not a statement. If we still owe money on anyone why have the EFL removed outstanding transfer fees off our charge sheet

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, roboto said:

You’re right that we are all estimating, but we can’t let a statement saying we still owe £8m on Bielik go unchallenged. No doubt some will take that estimate as correct, but as @PistoldPetementioned, the total sum of owed fees for players was circa £8m and since then we have sold plenty of playing staff to bring these owed fees down.

I made sure my estimate was clearly labelled as an estimate and my opinion. The original post was presented as fact.

Yes am sure I did acknowledge that the figure you alluded to was an estimate as well.

[strawhillram]

Nothing wrong with speculators or ITKs. I love it. The forum would be a lesser place without it.

 And the page count and hits would be much lower

If I want facts I look elsewhere for official news .

Edited March 12, 2022 by StrawHillRam

[PistoldPete]

19 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

It's OK to challenge a statement if you have a factual figure to challenge back with, not your own estimate which is what you're challenging the OP in the first place - like arguing over whose estimate is the best.

Both of you are guesstimating so both of you don't know what the absolute figure owed is. 

But I havent given a guesstimate. I have said I don't know. How is that BS? Al I am just saying as a matter of fact it isnt £8m , as we only owed £8.3 million for all transfers ever in November and even that figure has come down since.

This is what Lech said about Jozwiak's fee:

 

A spokesperson for Lech Poznan told Interia Sport: “So far Derby has no arrears with us regarding the transfer of Kamil Jóźwiak.

“The next and at the same time the largest tranche is scheduled for February 2022. We are looking with concern at the troubles of the English club.”

So we know that Jozwiak was payable by instalments and a large chunk of that was due in february. Plus he has just been sold which I don't think is coincidental.

 

So all that I have said is true and in the public domain.

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, PistoldPete said:

But I havent given a guesstimate. I have said I don't know. How is that BS? Al I am just saying as a matter of fact it isnt £8m , as we only owed £8.3 million for all transfers ever in November and even that figure has come down since.

This is what Lech said about Jozwiak's fee:

 

A spokesperson for Lech Poznan told Interia Sport: “So far Derby has no arrears with us regarding the transfer of Kamil Jóźwiak.

“The next and at the same time the largest tranche is scheduled for February 2022. We are looking with concern at the troubles of the English club.”

So we know that Jozwiak was payable by instalments and a large chunk of that was due in february. Plus he has just been sold which I don't think is coincidental.

 

So all that I have said is true and in the public domain.

Whats the figure owed then for Bielik after all that couldn't see it in your reply. 

[atherstoneram]

9 hours ago, HoracioCarbonara said:

Unfortunately they will deal with what they are given…I deal with relatively simple transactions (just advised on a multi-hundreds of millions one) they’re not straight forward and they take time and every day throws up a new issue. They’re not buying a Mars Bar…

I was replying to a poster who said that prospective buyers may have asked the administrators to wait and see what league we are in next season to which i replied was unlikely and they were selling a championship club,or trying to.

Probably the simple transactions you advise on don't concern businesses in administration.

[Eatonram]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Whats the figure owed then for Bielik after all that couldn't see it in your reply. 

Your losing this argument, best to drop it.