Gee SCREAMER !! Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said: I genuinely don't know. I would have said the bottom 3 teams still get relegated but that's me thinking out of spite mainly. If it meant an extra team getting promoted from League 1 then so be it. Saw a Charlton fan had contacted the EFL looking for Derby to be expelled as soon as possible, so that clubs like Charlton could know as soon as possible whether they would be having a fourth promotion spot and it would make their end of season much more exciting. Hopefully he has a proper poo day. Tyler Durden and Tamworthram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: It was reported that we'd paid £2M of the fee mate when this first came to light mate which was at the point the creditors list was posted at Companies House. I think it's therefore entirely fair that folk make assumptions on that basis. Nobody will know the precise figures bar the admins themselves but I'm not sure why you are dismissing any picture that is not the bleakest possible scenario when the facts actually contradict your guess, not theirs. Furthermore, this is a forum after all with all that that implies. You've advocated poster rights to reply on that basis, so perhaps you should be mindful of that too? My point was solely around we don't actually know a definitive figure unless someone is claiming that they're ITK and am still waiting for that figure which ain't going to materialise so on that basis I'm ducking out of this. Take onboard your comments which are as normal well balanced and reasonable (and no sarcasm intended either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: I genuinely don't know. I would have said the bottom 3 teams still get relegated but that's me thinking out of spite mainly. If it meant an extra team getting promoted from League 1 then so be it. Another odd post buddy! Given how much misery Morris's actions have caused the Derby fanbase, why would you wish to see them impact another blameless group of fans who are wholly uninvolved? I've seen a lot of posts on this forum gloating over Chelsea's issues too. Hard to fathom really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 9 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: I'm not really getting the wait till we see if we're a championship or League 1 club. The debt remains and increases whatever league and if its left till May we have no team. Leaving it till then would make no sense to any investor. That's not the issue . If it's true that the admin want 50 million, Half of which is their fee and MSD, we are buggered. With the cost of new contracts, loan fees, additional wages and agent fees for freebies, ground maintenance and back rent to Morris, plus additional transfer fees, payoffs etc still owing then 25-30 million is a correct offer to facilitate a satisfactory outcome for creditors. Mels got to help out with the MSD loan by at least halving it and arranging the lease of the ground for the remainder with a handover on loan payment completion in a few years. If he does we get moving . If we want 50 million upfront it is not happening. I may be totally wrong but for me if Mel was to say the ground is free to new owner it will help enormously …yes it means he writes off the 20m or whatever he / msd want but I think he should do this….this will enable new owner to at least own the ground or as it stands all a PB will be buying is a few players not out of contract end of season cmon Mel do the right thing and help us!!!! You left us in this mess ?? Jimbo Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said: My point was solely around we don't actually know a definitive figure unless someone is claiming that they're ITK and am still waiting for that figure which ain't going to materialise so on that basis I'm ducking out of this. Take onboard your comments which are as normal well balanced and reasonable (and no sarcasm intended either) On 2 August 2019, Bielik joined Derby County on a five-year contract. The fee was undisclosed, but reported by the Telegraph as an initial fee of below Derby's record fee paid of £8 million, plus performance-related clauses that could take it "towards the £10 million mark". We can probably assume that involves promotion payments, so it likely to be under 8 million. Been here 3 from 5 years - paid 4.8 Million. I think we have 3.2 million or a bit less to pay of the guaranteed fee. I doubt we'll get as far as appearance, playoff, promotion attachments. Tyler Durden 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 minute ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Another odd post buddy! Given how much misery Morris's actions have caused the Derby fanbase, why would you wish to see them impact another blameless group of fans who are wholly uninvolved? I've seen a lot of posts on this forum gloating over Chelsea's issues too. Hard to fathom really. It was based more around the crap which then inevitably would be directed towards the EFL by any clubs dragged into this then the suffering of the clubs fans themselves didn't make that very clear and the massive hurricane of piss which the EFL would then have to mop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: It was based more around the crap which then inevitably would be directed towards the EFL by any clubs dragged into this then the suffering of the clubs fans themselves didn't make that very clear and the massive hurricane of piss which the EFL would then have to mop up. Fair enough mate. I was thinking last night that there's a hurricane about to blow through English football with a lot of fans going to end up a broken-hearted. That said, anything that messes with the EFL or hastens their demise is good with me too. Probably hypocritical, but I couldn't care less. Tyler Durden 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 12 minutes ago, S8TY said: I may be totally wrong but for me if Mel was to say the ground is free to new owner it will help enormously …yes it means he writes off the 20m or whatever he / msd want but I think he should do this….this will enable new owner to at least own the ground or as it stands all a PB will be buying is a few players not out of contract end of season cmon Mel do the right thing and help us!!!! You left us in this mess ?? I think that may have been on the table or a very staggered payment . My gut feeling his 'accord' with Gibson and possibly parasite Two has left him in a position where writing of 20 million plus potentially another 20 - 25 million if the accord goes pear shaped leaves him in almost the same debt bracket if the hadn't put the club in admin, meaning he may as well have cleared the debt in the first place and sold us in a much healthier position for 30 million quid accepting a 20 million write off plus another 4- 5 million wage loss for this season in the first place. Now there's a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriggRam Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Any chance we could move all this Bielik talk to his another thread ??? Ram-a-lama fa fa fa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 10/03/2022 at 09:29, duncanjwitham said: But they aren't aimed at football clubs specifically - they're about allowing the government to claim more tax back from stricken businesses in general (not just football clubs): https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introduction-of-changes-to-protect-your-tax-in-insolvency/introduction-of-changes-to-protect-your-tax-in-insolvency I find this rather incredible given the amounts written off for big business and the amount of taxpayer's money thrown away through pandemic fraud. Jimbo Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, DavesaRam said: I find this rather incredible given the amounts written off for big business and the amount of taxpayer's money thrown away through pandemic fraud. But it isn't HMRC who threw away the money. No use moaning when we clearly owe it. DavesaRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 3 hours ago, LERam said: Not sure its comparable in anyway but I will.... Radio 1 has 10 million listeners or so, raising money for comic relief, with a week of hard pushing. They made 6-700k That was begging 10m people to hand over money to charity, to potentially save lives. They could argue that it isn't hard for 10m people to give a £1 and raise 10m. They made less than a 10th of that It sounds easy when you say x amount of fans donating so much, but in reality it will actually be a lot lower number of fans that can or will donate. Is that to put it James Bluntly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Tamworthram said: I didn’t mention 25% as a lump sum or 35% as part of a payment plan. Any CVA, in any industry, has to be approved by 75% (in value) of creditors I believe. You dint need a CVA to leave admin in any industry - just agreements from creditors to your payment amounts and plan. Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipleyRich Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, CornwallRam said: I do wonder if bidders actually see a pheonix in L2 as a cheaper and quicker vehicle to the Premier League than a L1 club with ongoing liabilities, a 15 point penalty and an EFL enforced business plan. I can't help thinking that Derby County with Ashley's money would likely get successive promotions if he was able to extricate the club from the EFL'S restrictions. I can also see the EFL seeing it as a show of strength - Derby County tried to cheat and look what happened. Also Derby County going bust could be used by politicians as a level for change. It seems to me, that liquidation and re-birth could be in a lot of people's interests and might even be good for us fans...although not so much for the creditors. To my mind, MA will have a very strict ceiling on what he is willing to pay. It's purely business for him. There is no emotional attachment to the club. There will he a value at which he will walk away. There are plenty of other clubs he could buy for similar money and with greater assets. Maybe with not so much potential (on paper) but then look what was achieved at Leicester. Just for example, if we are considering that it may be L1 next season, what would it cost to buy say Ipswich or Charlton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 10/03/2022 at 19:04, Jimbo Ram said: Why do people buy football clubs? I can understand in Ashley’s case it will help promote his Sports Direct brand but surely there is no money in it… There is a well-known saying that if you want to make a small fortune out of owning a football club, you have to start off with a large fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipleyRich Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, CornwallRam said: I think I read somewhere that it would have to happen by mid-March to be able to join a league for the following season. If that's true, it would have to happen next week, or we'd miss a season. Part of me would love the chaos that the EFL would have to deal with if it did happen next week. I'd also think it that missing a season would be very tricky as there wouldn't be a gap in the pyramid. Our gates would also really suffer as many would have gotten out of the habit of dedicating so much time, energy and money to football. It won't happen before season's end. That is exactly why EFL were so uptight about proof of funds. A club going mid season is a nightmare for them. Points adjustments, some clubs have revenue from games against the deceased club, some dont. Proper bag of **** for them to deal with. It's no coincidence that the EFL have gone quiet since funding was guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, RipleyRich said: It won't happen before season's end. That is exactly why EFL were so uptight about proof of funds. A club going mid season is a nightmare for them. Points adjustments, some clubs have revenue from games against the deceased club, some dont. Proper bag of **** for them to deal with. It's no coincidence that the EFL have gone quiet since funding was guaranteed. But if the remaining bidders all pull out, the Admins could potentially go for liquidation before that - no point in keep spending money if no one wants to buy us as a going concern.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, davenportram said: You dint need a CVA to leave admin in any industry - just agreements from creditors to your payment amounts and plan. I stand corrected but the point I was trying to make is still valid (I think). You don’t need the EFL’s agreement to exit administration - just the creditors agreement. But the EFL can impose further sanctions if they don’t like your business plan. atherstoneram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: I stand corrected but the point I was trying to make is still valid (I think). You don’t need the EFL’s agreement to exit administration - just the creditors agreement. But the EFL can impose further sanctions if they don’t like your business plan. The deductions are for not meeting 25% as a lump sum or 35% via a payment plan. This does not need to be via a CVA. Edited March 12, 2022 by davenportram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Just caught up today. From reading last few pages assumed liquidation had actually been announced! Very doom and gloom Jimbo Ram and BramcoteRam84 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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