The Administration Thread

[vonwright]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

If Morris let's "his" £80 million stadium go to the new owners for the £20 million debt to MSD, that's about 25 pence in the £, which is about the going rate for other creditors. 

Of course, Morris doesn't get a penny of that, MSD do.

I suspect he'll have trouble selling it for £20million, let alone £80million, if the club gets liquidated. 

[Maharan]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I’m worried we’re already past that point, and we’re on the risk of being kicked out anyway for not paying football creditors 100%.

I agree that we might be beyond that point, but I’d have thought a points deduction would be the outcome rather than expulsion. 

[Sparkle]

42 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

Everyone needs to wake up to the fact you can blame middlesborough Wycombe efl as much as you want. Mel Morris is 70 percent to blame for this mess. Kitchener deal fell apart because Morris refused to sell for less than he wanted. He’s getting ripped to shreds in statements and won’t show face to save the club from the mess he caused. Everyone is to fixed on efl and orher clubs and he’s setting off in the sunset Scott clear.

Mel Morris has left the building he has gone 

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, Maharan said:

I agree that we might be beyond that point, but I’d have thought a points deduction would be the outcome rather than expulsion. 

It’s -15 for not paying other creditors 25%, expulsion for not paying football creditors 100% IIRC.

[winktheram]

11 minutes ago, vonwright said:

It's possible both these are true:

a) If Morris relinquished the stadium and took the hit over the loan personally, a buyer would live with a compromised settlement with Middlesbrough and Wycombe

b) If Middlesbrough and Wycombe dropped their claims, a buyer would live with having to pay Morris £20million for the stadium to pay off his loan

...and that's dangerous, because it becomes a game of chicken and the big losers if no one backs down are us, the fans.

It's also just possible Morris can't easily settle the loan. Who knows how much money he really has?

This is exactly it. Or somewhere in between. Putting aside the 'rights' of the claims for one moment to save the club. Gimp and the WW dude are saying MM should take a bit of the hit here. Lets say a compromise is £5m to Gimp and WW. As MM has a personal guarantee to MSD he would have to stump up that £5m. Or whatever the compromise is. Both have said they will deal. I'm guessing MM, as he is already in for £200m+ doesn't want to throw another £5m or whatever away and would also say they are spurious claims. BUT, perhaps some of the 'pressure' should also be diverted to MM - he could unlock this.

[Warwick Ram]

I am resigned to the fact that by the end of February we will cease to exist. I do not believe we will be saved as there is no appetite for it from the EFL or administrators.

[Sparkle]

43 minutes ago, SBW said:

Nixon saying that the reason Kirchner pulled out is cos he wanted to pay less for the stadium and Morris kiboshed it.  it's at the point it does really feel like he's still got his dirty mitts all over what is happening right now.  

 

Absolutely none of his business 

[Maharan]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

It’s -15 for not paying other creditors 25%, expulsion for not paying football creditors 100% IIRC.

You’re probably right. I’m often wrong.

not good news though 

[Day]

5 minutes ago, vonwright said:

Dunno, though. £20million is a lot, and I suspect more than enough to pay off Middlesbrough and Wycombe (I'm not saying I'd be happy doing that, but a buyer might.)

The best solution here is that the EFL rules that Middlesbrough and Wycombe aren't football creditors, since they weren't owed money at the point we went into adminstration, our administrators haven't accepted their claims, and football clubs should basically follow the same rules of adminstration as any other company. They won't, it seems, because they would get sued: so instead they create a terrible precedent and hide behind the language of "balancing interests".

But yeah, Mel comes out of this badly if he basically put the club into administration but hived off the only real asset to cover his personal liabilities. I could see why the real creditors would be annoyed by that, let alone Gibson.

Hard to say until they come out with an actual figure, they have dismissed claims of it being what has been reported, but £20m might not even touch the sides.

Let's say £20m is what Mel wants and both Boro and Wycombe would be happy with £10m a piece, Mel drops any demands for payment for the statement to get this done. It's a done deal.

Is that good for the game? The admission that by cheating we cost Boro a place in the Championship and by using the timeframe given by the EFL cost Wycombe a place in the Championship.

Let's say Stoke finish 6th above Blackburn by a point, Stoke lose in the play offs and it's announced they failed FFP this season. Blackburn will be looking at this and writing up their claim for £10m and each season as the prize gets bigger, that £10m goes higher and higher.

You could argue it would be great for the game, a real deterrent for failing FFP, I don't know, just feel it could open the floodgates to even more claims and it would have a knock on effect across all leagues in the country.

[Ellafella]

31 minutes ago, David said:

 

That is precisely it in a nutshell. 

[TheDeadlySaul]

Do we have the funding past February then or have I misread something? 

[vonwright]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Hard to say until they come out with an actual figure, they have dismissed claims of it being what has been reported, but £20m might not even touch the sides.

Let's say £20m is what Mel wants and both Boro and Wycombe would be happy with £10m a piece, Mel drops any demands for payment for the statement to get this done. It's a done deal.

Is that good for the game? The admission that by cheating we cost Boro a place in the Championship and by using the timeframe given by the EFL cost Wycombe a place in the Championship.

Let's say Stoke finish 6th above Blackburn by a point, Stoke lose in the play offs and it's announced they failed FFP this season. Blackburn will be looking at this and writing up their claim for £10m and each season as the prize gets bigger, that £10m goes higher and higher.

You could argue it would be great for the game, a real deterrent for failing FFP, I don't know, just feel it could open the floodgates to even more claims and it would have a knock on effect across all leagues in the country.

I'd say it would be terrible for the game, but at this stage I'm not willing to sacrifice our club for the good of the game. 

[angieram]

6 minutes ago, vonwright said:

I suspect he'll have trouble selling it for £20million, let alone £80million, if the club gets liquidated. 

I know that, but you talk as if Morris is profiting from the situation. To me he is just trying to limit his losses to the £200 million he's already invested, rather than stump up another £20 million he probably hasn't got.

Providing we secure a buyer and continue as a football club, then it's a bloody good asset for the new owner to have and I would be very relieved to have 'our' stadium back.

If we don't, then we will be liquidated and everyone loses out, including Mel Morris. 

But I don't think we should jeopardise the future of Derby County because the best outcome for the club happens to be a good outcome for Morris too.

 

[The_Sheriff]

The games ducked anyway. Whilst there are two different bodies running the pyramid and money being distributed unfairly it’s completely ducked.

It shouldn’t be you can get away with ffp if you get promoted it should be you get punished regardless.

Edited January 20, 2022 by The_Sheriff

[Simmo’s left foot]

So true, if that precedent is set then the league will be full of claims and counter claims. It will implode.

[gfs1ram]

1 hour ago, cosmic said:

This prat has decided to speak out now...

It's as if they plan to release statements together. Surely not?

Sorry if this has already been posted on here but I cannot keep up.

I tweeted my response at the time -

" That's it then. we literally have it now in black & white ( no pun intended)

Gibson ensures DCFC is liquidated and Morris then has to pay the £20m+ under his guarantee.

Game set and match to Gibson - just no DCFC.

VENDETTA !!! "

[Eatonram]

I'd rather MM get some money, than Boro or Wycombe any day of the week

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

45 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

I personally think that they would disappear for less that £5m, Mel made the mess take that from what he’s owed he should do something to clean it up 

My thinking is the 40 million figure is exactly the same as Gibson thinks the stadium was overvalued.  Too coincidental 

[Day]

Just now, vonwright said:

I'd say it would be terrible for the game, but at this stage I'm not willing to sacrifice our club for the good of the game. 

Fair and I couldn't argue against that, however selfish it may be.

I just hope, really hope it doesn't come down to that.

Time for all parties to get together now, they have entertained MP's, fan groups, but the most important meeting has yet to happen. 

This could all be potentially over in a few hours over a bottle of wine.

[Sparkle]

44 minutes ago, OUFCfan said:

Neutral fan in peace here!

This whole mess (which I am sorry you are all suffering btw) seems to be getting very mixed up with all the information and misinformation flying around.

I seem to have read the Gibson letter differently than most here thought (possibly less emotionally?) in that to me all it was saying is that this is a complex issue and not just a simple WW/MFC are to blame, lets get together to discuss it - and from his point of view likely agree a settlement I guess.

 

Genuinely don't understand where the deadline has come from either, seems to be entirely arbitrary to me, but again as external I don't know the complexities of it. Seems to be a lot of incompetent people from EFL to administrators involved though

Thank you for your interest - this has gone on for four years ! And I can assure you neither the EFL or the Middlesbrough parasite are telling the truth - the administrators are the latest ones to join the scenario so are probably the most honest ones of the bunch - we are doomed unless the two parasite football club owners get a pay off for just complaining ( which means everyone else gets less ) so we are going to be liquidated because the EFL won’t make a judgement on the parasite clubs being football creditors when they haven’t actually done anything legally! - we can’t announce a preferred bidder whilst that hangs over a new owner where as the preferred bidder would fund the club if they were allowed to be announced. So the two parasite clubs need to withdraw or the EFL need to actually make a ruling if not we are finished!