Should Rooney be doing better under the current circumstances?

[Kathcairns]

22 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

This isn't to say that the hyopthetical other manager is guaranteed to fare any better, but...

Would another manager play Jason Knight at left wing, nullifying any attacking threat he may possess? Would another manager keep choosing a right hand sifde of Byrne & Ebosele when they're clearly not suited to playing together? Would another manager take a Polish international winger, give him a defensive / covering role in the team before discarding him because of defensive lapses, never actually allowing him to play in the role he was signed for?

Would a different manager have managed Sibley in a way that he seems so frustrated every time he appears (out of position) that he now looks like an also-ran in our U23s? Would another manager be so worried about a CM picking up too many bookings that he plays 3 CMs who possess practically zero goal threat?

Would another manager fight to bring in a 3rd CB as cover but hardly ever sub him on even when we need to hold onto a point (or 3)? 

These aren't decisions dictated by our 'situation', they're managerial choices. We don't have loads of options, we don't always have good options, but we do have options!

Again, we have no way of knowing for sure what would have happened had different choices been made but it doesn't mean that what he does do is beyond question.

I'd just hate for us to get to this point next season in League One and still see most of the same or similar issues keep popping up and costing us points, having buried my head in the sand for 2 years and put any and all shortcomings down to 'the situation'.

It may make it seem like I'm being unnecessarily harsh on Rooney, but I don't mean it that way. I just can't compartmentalise and lock away my doubts like some other seem to be able to.

Ideally it will be totally different next season, the lessons Rooney should be learning from this season (and last, even though some don't seem to want to acknowledge it) may all come together and he leads us back to The Championship with relative ease.

I didnt say he was beyond question, but there seems to be a lot of would be managers on this post.?

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I’m pretty sure you were sniping and claiming I was trying to bait people.

Or have I missed the point?

 

If the cap fits ?‍♀️

[Kathcairns]

1 minute ago, Kathcairns said:

I didnt say he was beyond question, but there seems to be a lot of would be managers on this post.?

I know we are in dire trouble, but think we should lighten up a bit, its getting depressing.?

[hintonsboots]

[Jimbo Ram]

13 minutes ago, Warwick Ram said:

To be honest I never understood signing Allsop when we had two keepers already. Marshall would be a good back up.

We desperately needed another forward.

Don’t you need to have 3 keepers named in your squad ?

[1of4]

 The first thing that needs to be answered is what were the expectations for this squad at the start of this season and are they achieving them. We knew that due to the restrictions imposed upon us, that the make up of the squad wasn't what Rooney was hoping for and we wouldn't be pushing for a promotion place.

Discounting the 21 points deduction we'd be just outside the relegation zone, which is probably where many supporters expected to be. 

So if this was our expectations. Then should Rooney be doing better? Probably not.

[May Contain Nuts]

7 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

I didnt say he was beyond question, but there seems to be a lot of would be managers on this post.?

Sorry yeah, I was't accusing you of saying that.

You can see the tone of some other people's posts though I assume, the existence of the thread at all seems to be a personal affront to them.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Coconut's Beard

[hintonsboots]

1 minute ago, Kathcairns said:

I know we are in dire trouble, but think we should lighten up a bit, its getting depressing.?

We all seem to be expecting Armageddon now. We will soon have new owners and be moving into the top 6 of League 1, after a 4-0 away win at Accrington Stanley. I’m off to hibernate until next September.

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

I know we are in dire trouble, but think we should lighten up a bit, its getting depressing.?

Have you resorted to responding to your own posts ?

[Kathcairns]

4 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Have you resorted to responding to your own posts ?

Im an oldie so not really into these smart phones??

[Bris Vegas]

19 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

If the cap fits ?‍♀️

When in Rome

[Asanovic70]

  @Jourdan I have to disagree. We have a poster @kevinhectoring excusing Mel on one thread, but then issuing doubts about the manager on another. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. One is the actual cause of the malaise affecting the club. Rooney could leave tomorrow, the next incumbent probably wouldn't make much difference, like when Ipswich replaced Paul Hurst (lower league) with Paul Lambert (more experienced). Nothing changed. I'm not saying Rooney is exempt from criticism, far from it, but I do think some of our fans are in denial about our situation: deduction & embargo. They are inextricably linked to our present situation. 

We began the season under the cloud of the threat of a 9pt deduction (accounting irregularities). The situation has got progressively worse.

Quote

 

32 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

We have far too many players who are either not delivering or deeply inconsistent. Could Rooney be getting more quality and consistency out of Byrne, Forsyth, Knight, Sibley, Jozwiak, Morrison, Kazim and Baldock amongst others? Are they performing to their potential? History tells us not.

 

Forsyth is now a veteran, three cruciate injuries, I think, time has caught up with him, maybe he isn't up  to the rigours of a demanding league. CKR a journeyman, probably had one of his stand-out seasons in an erratic career. How do we know he's still carrying that injury he suffered at Peterborough? Baldock: injury-prone, how can he have an extended run in the side if he keeps getting  injured? Morrison has made 125 appearance in a nomadic career (28). I'll be honest with you, I did entertain the vague hope Rooney would transform him into that great talent/enigma everybody kept saying he was & he'd drive us up the table. Talk about misguided. 

He's made 17 appearances at Derby, 3rd or 4th highest of his career.  You're asking Rooney to turn around a player that SAF gave up on, Allardyce signed & eventually dismissed & Redknapp gave a brief chance to at QPR . It suggests he is erratic.

On the flipside, you take out a long-serving player (3-4 seasons) the heart-beat of a team, like Mowatt, & Barnsley have struggled. It can't be all because of the manager & one player, but Mowatt, 26, is the sort of experienced player needed (in his prime). 

Have you thought that sometimes a player flatters to deceive or maybe isn't as good as you think he is, or maybe thinks he is himself? Talent will out even in a poor side. Sibley perhaps, definitely Jozwiak. Wanted him to do well, shocking for Poland in their exit to Sweden. They actually pulled back a 2-0 deficit after he was subbed. He failed to put one cross in for Lewandowski, who looked visibly frustrated with him. That was nothing to do with us & I think Sousa is a good manager with a lot of experience around Europe.

The Championship is full of fine margins, four of the games you list were away fixtures. Has it ever occurred to you that the other team wants to win as well? Not terribly surprised we lost yesterday, Bristol City were coming off a poor performance & had a point to prove. 

It may be a poor league, but it is also one of the most honest. As evidenced by how we are performing under our given circumstances & the rest of the division. It is a division where any side can beat each other on any given day if a favourite turns up & is complacent.

There are few 'gimmes' as Bournemouth discovered. Using your rationale, how can you explain Preston winning there yet losing at Blackburn? Shouldn't they be winning that kind of away game then, too?

Edited December 5, 2021 by Asanovic70

[Tamworthram]

8 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

  @Jourdan I have to disagree. We have a poster @kevinhectoring excusing Mel on one thread, but then issuing doubts about the manager on another. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. One is the actual cause of the malaise affecting the club. Rooney could leave tomorrow, the next incumbent probably wouldn't make much difference, like when Ipswich replaced Paul Hurst (lower league) with Paul Lambert (more experienced). Nothing changed. I'm not saying Rooney is exempt from criticism, far from it, but I do think some of our fans are in denial about our situation: deduction & embargo. They are inextricably linked to our present situation. 

We began the season under the cloud of the threat of a 9pt deduction (accounting irregularities). The situation has got progressively worse.

Forsyth is now a veteran, three cruciate injuries, I think, time has caught up with him, maybe he isn't up  to the rigours of a demanding league. CKR a journeyman, probably had one of his stand-out seasons in an erratic career. How do we know he's still carrying that injury he suffered at Peterborough? Baldock: injury-prone, how can he have an extended run in the side if he keeps getting  injured? Morrison has made 125 appearance in a nomadic career (28). I'll be honest with you, I did entertain the vague hope Rooney would transform him into that great talent/enigma everybody kept saying he was & he'd drive us up the table. Talk about misguided. 

He's made 17 appearances at Derby, 3rd or 4th highest of his career.  You're asking Rooney to turn around a player that SAF gave up on, Allardyce signed & eventually dismissed & Redknapp gave a brief chance to at QPR . It suggests he is erratic.

On the flipside, you take out a long-serving player (3-4 seasons) the heart-beat of a team, like Mowatt, & Barnsley have struggled. It can't be all because of the manager & one player, but Mowatt, 26, is the sort of experienced player needed (in his prime). 

Have you thought that sometimes a player flatters to deceive or maybe isn't as good as you think he is, or maybe thinks he is himself? Talent will out even in a poor side. Sibley perhaps, definitely Jozwiak. Wanted him to do well, shocking for Poland in their exit to Sweden. They actually pulled back a 2-0 deficit after he was subbed. He failed to put one cross in for Lewandowski, who looked visibly frustrated with him. That was nothing to do with us & I think Sousa is a good manager with a lot of experience around Europe.

The Championship is full of fine margins, four of the games you list were away fixtures. Has it ever occurred to you that the other team wants to win as well? Not terribly surprised we lost yesterday, Bristol City were coming off a poor performance & had a point to prove. 

It may be a poor league, but it is also one of the most honest. As evidenced by how we are performing under our given circumstances & the rest of the division. It is a division where any side can beat each other on any given day if a favourite turns up & is complacent.

There are few 'gimmes' as Bournemouth discovered. Using your rationale, how can you explain Preston winning there yet losing at Blackburn? Shouldn't they be winning that kind of away game then, too?

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Tamworthram

[G STAR RAM]

9 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

You need to go back when he was appointed. We could have had Wassall/Steve Mac or gone for a younger Manager dong well in the lower leagues, an Ian Evatt or Ryan Lowe….someone who had at least some experience……rather than a novice with no managerial experience, coaching experience or coaching badges. It was a vanity project from Mel to get his face in the newspapers and had nothing to do with his credentials or ability to do the job. All of those I mention would have done as well if not better than Wazza, a 24% win rate isn’t great is it……but we will never know will we…..

You missed Paul Cook off your list, wasnt he one of the managers that people wanted instead of Rooney?

[Jimbo Ram]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You missed Paul Cook off your list, wasnt he one of the managers that people wanted instead of Rooney?

Yep, another good shout, done better at ?than Wazza at the ?….

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Yep, another good shout, done better at ?than Wazza at the ?….

He's just been sacked from Ipswich.

[Jimbo Ram]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

He's just been sacked from Ipswich.

I know, that’s my point. Only had a win % of 30%, just not good enough to keep you in a job ?

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Jimbo Ram said:

I know, that’s my point. Only had a win % of 30%, just not good enough to keep you in a job ?

Also had a squad that should be romping the division they are in.

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Also had a squad that should be romping the division they are in.

Bit like Cocu, did better with better players ?

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Jimbo Ram said:

Bit like Cocu, did better with better players ?

So how do you know the other managers on your list would not be the same?