Climate Change & COP26

[Wolfie]

I couldn't find the previous thread we had about this but....

Every little helps, and all, but I can't help but think that COP26 isn't going to end up with anything strong enough to actually make much of an impact on the efforts to slow climate change. Reports including vague targets and promises but with no mechansim to enforce them - even if they do include countries like USA/China/India/Brazil.

Elected politicans are never going to make the decisions that are required because they're too afraid of losing votes from those who don't (or can't afford to) care about their climate impact, and most of them will be long gone before they can be criticsed for not meeting the targets they agreed.

Those of us who can make the "right" choices have got to start doing so. the market will then have to change to meet demand. More change and pressure from the bottom up - cos top down isn't going to do it on its own.

[Stive Pesley]

I'm sure they will sort it out at COP27, weather permitting

[sage]

Even if everyone keeps their pledges we are looking at a rise of 2.4c which is horrific. in 10 years time China and India will be the biggest polluters and unless they plan for a coal free future the planet is on it's harris. 

[Archied]

4 hours ago, Wolfie said:

I couldn't find the previous thread we had about this but....

Every little helps, and all, but I can't help but think that COP26 isn't going to end up with anything strong enough to actually make much of an impact on the efforts to slow climate change. Reports including vague targets and promises but with no mechansim to enforce them - even if they do include countries like USA/China/India/Brazil.

Elected politicans are never going to make the decisions that are required because they're too afraid of losing votes from those who don't (or can't afford to) care about their climate impact, and most of them will be long gone before they can be criticsed for not meeting the targets they agreed.

Those of us who can make the "right" choices have got to start doing so. the market will then have to change to meet demand. More change and pressure from the bottom up - cos top down isn't going to do it on its own.

I’m pretty sure there will be plenty strong enough to have an impact on the lives and wallets of those least able to afford it ??‍♂️, isn’t that what it’s for 

[Bob The Badger]

17 hours ago, sage said:

Even if everyone keeps their pledges we are looking at a rise of 2.4c which is horrific. in 10 years time China and India will be the biggest polluters and unless they plan for a coal free future the planet is on it's harris. 

The planet will bounce back.

Humans may not though.

[sage]

15 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

The planet will bounce back.

Humans may not though.

How many animals will we take with us though?

[Stive Pesley]

17 minutes ago, sage said:

How many animals will we take with us though?

we're gonna need a bigger boat

[uttoxram75]

[TigerTedd]

2 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Can’t decide on a laugh of cry emoji. 

[uttoxram75]

35 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Can’t decide on a laugh of cry emoji. 

I know mate.

[Miggins]

We can't control what goes on in the wider world but we can control what goes on in our homes. We have started to take all our soft plastics to the co-op rather than put them in the land fill bin. We already recycle everything we can. We grow as much of own veg as we can, I am vegetarian and Steve only eats meat once a week, We have a compost bin and both of us drive small cars.

We can only control what we can.  

[Archied]

6 minutes ago, Miggins said:

We can't control what goes on in the wider world but we can control what goes on in our homes. We have started to take all our soft plastics to the co-op rather than put them in the land fill bin. We already recycle everything we can. We grow as much of own veg as we can, I am vegetarian and Steve only eats meat once a week, We have a compost bin and both of us drive small cars.

We can only control what we can.  

Yep that’s admirable and makes sense if we all do it and I reckon more and more would if those at the top were honest and genuine , instead they just tax us more and more whilst aiming for economic growth ( how’s that work) ??‍♂️

[Wolfie]

13 hours ago, Archied said:

Yep that’s admirable and makes sense if we all do it and I reckon more and more would if those at the top were honest and genuine , instead they just tax us more and more whilst aiming for economic growth ( how’s that work) ??‍♂️

Taxes are only going up at the moment due to the impact of Covid. That's not a political point but an economics one.

What worries me about this post is the implication that the masses don't have to do their bit until "those at the top" prove that they are. That's utterly self-defeating where climate change is concerned.

My last point in the original post was about those who can make better choices have got to make sure they do. Now. Waiting for everyone else to do it first is what's got us in this mess.

[Archied]

30 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Taxes are only going up at the moment due to the impact of Covid. That's not a political point but an economics one.

What worries me about this post is the implication that the masses don't have to do their bit until "those at the top" prove that they are. That's utterly self-defeating where climate change is concerned.

My last point in the original post was about those who can make better choices have got to make sure they do. Now. Waiting for everyone else to do it first is what's got us in this mess.

Really ,,,,? I suppose you don’t consider the £12.50 per day for me to go to work in my van inside the north/ south circular a tax , a van by the way with an engine I was steered towards buying under the same banner being used now which is only recently finished being paid for , yep let’s scrap it , throw it away and spend what ? 30k on an electric one that will need energy from somewhere and create more take make throw away ?, never mind the original congestion charge ? have you looked at your energy bills for green energy subsidy charges? Have you looked at vehicle road tax sliding scale ? Present and future tax on certain foods ? Do you really need me to go on with further list of taxes and taxes under a different name? 
where have I said in the post you quote people shouldn’t do what they believe will help ? What I have said and stand by is that there is no change at the top ,it’s just pretence ,same old take make throw away trickle down 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Archied

[Stive Pesley]

45 minutes ago, Archied said:

What I have said and stand by is that there is no change at the top ,it’s just pretence ,same old take make throw away trickle down

I get the gist of what you're saying, but I think time is running out for the old way of governing. There is a spotlight on everything they do and say now, and people are finally holding them to account. So for me it's "we're doing OUR bit and we've been doing OUR bit for years - now we expect the same of you, and if you don't then you will be removed from power via the ballot box"

Why else do you think BJ is so desperate to be seen as some kind of ecological warrior when the COP26 cameras are rolling? 

With the Labour Party dead on its feet, I would expect the Greens to start making gains soon

[Archied]

10 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I get the gist of what you're saying, but I think time is running out for the old way of governing. There is a spotlight on everything they do and say now, and people are finally holding them to account. So for me it's "we're doing OUR bit and we've been doing OUR bit for years - now we expect the same of you, and if you don't then you will be removed from power via the ballot box"

Why else do you think BJ is so desperate to be seen as some kind of ecological warrior when the COP26 cameras are rolling? 

With the Labour Party dead on its feet, I would expect the Greens to start making gains soon

Tend to disagree with you ,, I believe the day will come when real change just can’t be avoided but it’s far here now , if you actually listen to Johnson he talks in glowing terms of how investing in rushed hair brained schemes , targets in un ready and un costed policies will bring financial gains you just know it’s garbage , he is one of the most insincere people you could have the misfortune  to come across ,

Edited November 12, 2021 by Archied

[Wolfie]

4 minutes ago, Archied said:

Really ,,,,? I suppose you don’t consider the £12.50 per day for me to go to work in my van inside the north/ south circular a tax , never mind the original congestion charge ? have you looked at your energy bills for green energy subsidy charges? Have you looked at vehicle road tax sliding scale ? Present and future tax on certain foods ? Do you really need me to go on with further list of taxes and taxes under a different name? 
 

Of course they're taxes but a tax is either to generate revenue or to bring about behaviour change. The ones you mention are both.

There are ways to pay less of the taxes you mention: Have a less polluting vehicle and use less energy. That's what they have been designed to bring about.

Low/Zero emission vehicles exist and they will get cheaper

Lower emission home power/heating exists and will get cheaper.

[Archied]

22 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Of course they're taxes but a tax is either to generate revenue or to bring about behaviour change. The ones you mention are both.

There are ways to pay less of the taxes you mention: Have a less polluting vehicle and use less energy. That's what they have been designed to bring about.

Low/Zero emission vehicles exist and they will get cheaper

Lower emission home power/heating exists and will get cheaper.

I’m on board mate , just send me a cheque for 30 k and I will rush out and buy an electric van???, £60 + per WEEK to work out of a van I was pushed into buying ,,, erm yeah where do you think normal people magic up all this money up from?

tax to change behaviour, you mean ones that force you to change from petrol to diesel? Pushing up manufacturing and throw away , where’s this revenue going ?  Hamster wheel springs to mind 

but the reply was to you saying taxes were only going up because of covid , so you accept it was a totally wrong statement and there is an issue to be debated re emptying the pockets of those with least ability to pay whilst actually doing bugger all?

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Archied

[maxjam]

After watching a bit of COP26 I can't help but feel they are a massive bunch of hypocrites that want to tell the masses how to live their lives whilst carrying on being the biggest mass polluters on the planet; 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/21/worlds-richest-1-cause-double-co2-emissions-of-poorest-50-says-oxfam

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10150743/Outrage-climate-warriors-Bill-Gates-Jeff-Bezos-celebrate-carbon-emitting-yacht.html

Regardless of what they say - and ignoring the India/China problem the measures they want to put in place are still a drop in the ocean, its more about slapping themselves on the back and taking more power and money away from the average guy than actually addressing the problem. 

By far the biggest problem we face on the planet is the number of humans that inhabit it.  Birth rates have been falling throughout UK and the EU for a number of years now  which again shifts much of the problem to elsewhere in the world ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51118616 

Whilst we can all do our bit - recycling our junk, switching to green energy, maybe taking the bus to work or holidaying at home rather than abroad etc, those measures only add the odd percent CO2 saving here and there.  If people have one child however that would make a massive difference.  Unfortnately the younger generations are going to have to 'take one' for the rest of us at some point and care for the elderly population - either that or they can make an even better coronavirus next time ?

https://phys.org/news/2017-07-effective-individual-tackle-climate-discussed.html

 

[uttoxram75]

1 hour ago, Wolfie said:

Taxes are only going up at the moment due to the impact of Covid. That's not a political point but an economics one.

What worries me about this post is the implication that the masses don't have to do their bit until "those at the top" prove that they are. That's utterly self-defeating where climate change is concerned.

My last point in the original post was about those who can make better choices have got to make sure they do. Now. Waiting for everyone else to do it first is what's got us in this mess.

Taxes going up are a political decision Wolfie. 
The country doesn’t owe anyone anything for the cost of COVID.