RamsTrust

[tinman]

It’s a frequently asked question, so you’d have the answers. No one’s expecting it to change the world. Or are you afraid of the answers for some reason?

[Foreveram]

2 hours ago, tinman said:

It takes 10 minutes to knock up a survey monkey survey and email it out to your distribution list. Job done.  Hardly ipsos mori. 

Maybe you could volunteer to do it.

[tinman]

15 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Maybe you could volunteer to do it.

Not in my remit. 

you’d have thought an organisation would want to have an idea of its membership? 

[Foreveram]

14 minutes ago, tinman said:

Not in my remit. 

you’d have thought an organisation would want to have an idea of its membership? 

Or maybe it’s just you.

[tinman]

1 minute ago, Foreveram said:

Or maybe it’s just you.

You’ve not actually read any of this thread, have you?

[Foreveram]

1 minute ago, tinman said:

You’ve not actually read any of this thread, have you?

Yes, all of it. I’m a member and I don’t need to know who else is.

[Philmycock]

18 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Yes, all of it. I’m a member and I don’t need to know who else is.

I'd want to know who I've affiliated myself with, or what's the point

[RamsfanJim]

3 hours ago, Philmycock said:

I'd want to know who I've affiliated myself with, or what's the point

If you join RamsTrust you join with hundreds of other Derby fans all around the world. I agree it would be interesting to know the demographics (age, location, regularity of attending etc.), but doesn't actually make any difference to what we do. I would be interested if any of them have particular skills which could help the Trust (PR, IT skills, accountancy, business, legal etc.) - as we are looking for active members to help in these areas. 

[I know nuffin]

On 30/10/2021 at 13:44, RamsfanJim said:

Not true (again) I have heard of, and read occasionally, multiple DCFC forums. Representatives from this forum have also attended some of those meetings. We reported back to our members and publicly, we don't need to post on every forum as well. 

I joined because I was advised this was a well run site where we wouldn't just get abuse but constructive debate. I have to say it has been mixed so far.. 

I would like RamsTrust to be as representative as possible, and haven't yet seen anything to say that isn't the case. I absolutely accept that some people don't want to join, or have any groups representing them, but I still believe having RamsTrust gives fans a voice which the club listens to (even if they don't always act). This should be a standard part of every club, and clubs are already mandated to meet with them - and this is likely to be strengthened soon. 

I am confused that people have complained I didn't join this forum earlier - they could all have approached RamsTrust earlier if they had wanted to engage. I am trying to improve things, and get criticised for it... 

 

Hi Jim. Not being in to forums until recently and knowing nothing about rams trust could you enlighten me by letting me know what things the club has listened to you and what that made them do. Thank you in advance

[RamsfanJim]

1 hour ago, I know nuffin said:

Hi Jim. Not being in to forums until recently and knowing nothing about rams trust could you enlighten me by letting me know what things the club has listened to you and what that made them do. Thank you in advance

That is obviously very difficult to answer, because firstly all recent meetings with the club have been with other supporters groups so were not RamsTrust alone. 

Secondly it is very difficult to tell whether the club would have done what they did without our advice. 

For example, at the last meeting we recommended that the club reopen the ticket office, send out season tickets, increase staff in the ticket office etc. (but again these may have been planned anyway). In the last mtg with Mel Morris there was a lot of discussion over whether to sign the 'trialists' (Jagielka, Morrison, Davies, Allsop, Baldock) or promote talent from the Academy. Mel seemed to be arguing it was better to use the academy, whereas the view from the reps there was that we needed more experience. I think he may have been using the group as a sounding board before making a decision. 

In the past there has been discussion on season ticket prices (e.g. When they tried to increase prices for disabled supporters), forming a 'singing section' at the ground, etc... 

I am sure some people will say supporters had no influence, but I am certain the club takes views into account. Any business that ignores its customers is going to fail. 

The meetings also gave representatives the opportunity to question the club on approach and finances. This enables us to hold the club to account, and meant we could highlight in the media when we had concerns so that all supporters could be aware. 

[Comrade 86]

7 hours ago, RamsfanJim said:

If you join RamsTrust you join with hundreds of other Derby fans all around the world.

How many members do you have currently?

[RamsfanJim]

34 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

How many members do you have currently?

Approx 1200

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, RamsfanJim said:

In the last mtg with Mel Morris there was a lot of discussion over whether to sign the 'trialists' (Jagielka, Morrison, Davies, Allsop, Baldock) or promote talent from the Academy. Mel seemed to be arguing it was better to use the academy, whereas the view from the reps there was that we needed more experience. I think he may have been using the group as a sounding board before making a decision. 

It’s interesting that Mel should be seeking fans’ endorsement of his academy dream. Much better to appoint a manager or director of football who buys into it and for the owner to leave football decisions to those appointed. I think Cocu accepted this aspect of the ‘Derby way’. Rooney I think was never really convinced 

[Comrade 86]

On 28/10/2021 at 22:43, 86 Hair Islands said:

Can I ask why it's taken over a decade for the Trust to engage with this community? By your own admission, you have only done so today at someone else's suggestion

 

On 28/10/2021 at 23:59, RamsfanJim said:

Each forum by its nature has a limited number of members, whereas twitter and Facebook (and our website) are public and widely used. 

 

2 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

How many members do you have currently?

 

2 hours ago, RamsfanJim said:

Approx 1200

See, herein lies my problem with you and the RT. I'd wager that prior to now, you've never once contacted David, this site's owner, to enquire as to membership numbers and / or page view stats, in order to properly evaluate the potential benefits and make an informed decision. If this is the case, can you explain exactly how you did actually go about assessing the value of this and other fans forums as platforms that might help grow your membership?    

Frankly, for all the faith that you afford 'open platforms' such as Twitter and Facebook as a means to stimulate membership numbers, it seems from the rather modest number who are already engaged with the RT, that your faith was unfounded. I don't know exactly how long the RT has existed, but irrespective, with a membership of only 1200, surely you should have been moving heaven and earth to raise your profile. Twitter indicates around 11 years which equates to growing the membership by less than 110 members per annum. That's a pretty damning indictment, however you choose to spin it.

So here it is. I'll join your club, as, most likely, will a number of other DCFC Fans Forum members and you can have you £2.00 each year despite my reservations about the RT being fit for purpose, but an open and independent poll as to the suitability of the current board needs to happen sooner rather than later. There are many reasons I could cite as to why, but I'll stick with just the one I've already highlighted for the time being.

 

I'm sorry Jim, but this disparity can't be explained away exclusively by your £2.00 fee. The club has @15,000 season ticket holders after all. If less than one in ten of that group sees any value in joining the RT and this despite our current predicament, then perhaps you might want to consider the Trust's performance and credibility before criticising fans for the 'lack of support they have shown'. Worldwide, I'd estimate a fanbase well in excess of 100,000. If this figure is remotely accurate, then the RT is tracking at @1% at best. In truth, that percentage is probably significantly lower. Either way, that, I'm afraid to say, is inexcusable and in my opinion, goes a long way to explaining the lack of faith many of us have in the Trust and its current board.

Edited November 1, 2021 by 86 Hair Islands

[Yani P]

Spot on comments..

This is a huge reason why people don't join. Same faces on the Board since day 1 who have done little to grow the membership or provide a compelling vision of where it is going and why people should join - the 2 quid is irrelevant. It needs a refresh at the top level to become relevant to more of the fan base. Single term board membership should be a given.

[Boycie]

10 hours ago, I know nuffin said:

Hi Jim. Not being in to forums until recently and knowing nothing about rams trust could you enlighten me by letting me know what things the club has listened to you and what that made them do. Thank you in advance

If you search “charter meetings” a few of the past threads will come up.  The majority had the minutes published on here.  We got members to post questions and the top five with the most likes where sent to the club prior.

[angieram]

6 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

 

 

 

See, herein lies my problem with you and the RT. I'd wager that prior to now, you've never once contacted David, this site's owner, to enquire as to membership numbers and / or page view stats, in order to properly evaluate the potential benefits and make an informed decision. If this is the case, can you explain exactly how you did actually go about assessing the value of this and other fans forums as platforms that might help grow your membership?    

Frankly, for all the faith that you afford 'open platforms' such as Twitter and Facebook as a means to stimulate membership numbers, it seems from the rather modest number who are already engaged with the RT, that your faith was unfounded. I don't know exactly how long the RT has existed, but irrespective, with a membership of only 1200, surely you should have been moving heaven and earth to raise your profile. Twitter indicates around 11 years which equates to growing the membership by less than 110 members per annum. That's a pretty damning indictment, however you choose to spin it.

So here it is. I'll join your club, as, most likely, will a number of other DCFC Fans Forum members and you can have you £2.00 each year despite my reservations about the RT being fit for purpose, but an open and independent poll as to the suitability of the current board needs to happen sooner rather than later. There are many reasons I could cite as to why, but I'll stick with just the one I've already highlighted for the time being.

 

I'm sorry Jim, but this disparity can't be explained away exclusively by your £2.00 fee. The club has @15,000 season ticket holders after all. If less than one in ten of that group sees any value in joining the RT and this despite our current predicament, then perhaps you might want to consider the Trust's performance and credibility before criticising fans for the 'lack of support they have shown'. Worldwide, I'd estimate a fanbase well in excess of 100,000. If this figure is remotely accurate, then the RT is tracking at @1% at best. In truth, that percentage is probably significantly lower. Either way, that, I'm afraid to say, is inexcusable and in my opinion, goes a long way to explaining the lack of faith many of us have in the Trust and its current board.

I think there are some very valid challenges in the above post, which I will leave for Jim to answer, but for me it depends whether we want to spend our time debating the past history of Rams Trust or recognising that there are genuine attempts to change and to try and work through as many channels as possible to acheive that at a time when the club is in crisis. 

I am not sure the comparison with BAWT is too helpful. They are 14 (I think) well established Twitter posters, who already have big followings on there. I would wager a lot of Rams Trust members never go anywhere near the platform and I only found their twitter presence recently.

Also, BAWT have stated their aim is to bring together fan groups so it doesn't seem right to start a competition between them. 

Surely each fan constituency has a valid place in supporter liaison and I don't think any of the fan groups would argue against this. It doesn't change the fact that Rams Trust are the constituted organisation that is part of the FSA and therefore has that "official" place at the table.

Now we can either moan about that, or get stuck in there to make their job of representing a wide range of supporters a bit easier.

I personally can't comment on the Rams Trust board, I was only aware of Jim before I joined. I have since spoken to a couple of others by email but that is all. 

[GboroRam]

The only advice I would offer to Jim and RT would be, please take care over wording of what you put out. It seems many people get their noses out of joint when they feel that you are speaking on their behalf. If all RT public communications ensure that the questions, opinions and other commentary are clearly on behalf of RT members and sympathisers, rather than having an air of speaking for all Rams supporters, I think it would go a long way to stopping bad feeling amongst general Rams fans. Even the most innocuous of comments will be objected to if it sounds like you are speaking for people who you never consulted with.

[ossieram]

10 hours ago, RamsfanJim said:

Approx 1200

How many are active members?

I posted earlier about John Richardson who joined years ago. He wasn't happy with what the trust and asked for his membership to be cancelled, he was still registered as a member over 12 months later even though he hadn't paid since he originally joined.

I also see people saying people should join if they are not happy and change things from within.

Is it possible to change the trusts policies or are they written in stone for all official clubs trust groups?

[angieram]

12 minutes ago, ossieram said:

How many are active members?

I posted earlier about John Richardson who joined years ago. He wasn't happy with what the trust and asked for his membership to be cancelled, he was still registered as a member over 12 months later even though he hadn't paid since he originally joined.

I also see people saying people should join if they are not happy and change things from within.

Is it possible to change the trusts policies or are they written in stone for all official clubs trust groups?

The objects and powers (how they acheive the objects) are written into the Trust's constitution,  which I think is pretty standard across all Trusts as they are based on a model constitution. I posted the main ones earlier in the thread. 

I'm not sure what you mean by policies as such. They are usually underlying documents for how an organisation runs its day to day activities. 

Bear in mind this is a totally voluntary set up with no paid staff, they are unlikely to be that many policies.

If you don't agree with the main objects then I don't think RT membership is for you. 

Here they are again:

 

Rams Trust objectives: 

Our objectives are to benefit the community by:

 

-      Being a democratic and representative voice of the supporters of the club and strengthening the bonds between the club and the communities which it serves;

-      Achieving the greatest possible supporter and community influence in the running and ownership of the club;

-      Promoting responsible and constructive community engagement by present and future members of the communities served by the club and engaging with the club to do the same;

-      Operating democratically, fairly, sustainably, transparently and with financial responsibility, and encouraging the club to do the same

-      Being a positive, inclusive and representative organisation, open and accessible to all supporters of the club regardless of their age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality, or religious or moral belief. 

Their website is here - https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/