RoyMac5 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: People don't usually join something they don't [think they] like. However, if they're shown that it isn't actually as bad as made out (public engagement) then they will join. Nope. Don't agree with that at all. Most people want to benefit from the organisation, very few want to join in and work for it. 33 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: It's about having a broader understanding of the differing views/opinions rather than reaching a consensus. As to how that would work in a practical sense... RT have been around ages, why haven't they appealed to more fans? Because there was no need. Now there is a need and still they don't appeal - you suggest it is the organisation at fault, I suggest it is the people who won't join and work from within the organisation. Have you joined? I haven't and don't want to. Edited October 29, 2021 by RoyMac5 GB SPORTS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Nope. Don't agree with that at all. Most people want to benefit from the organisation, very few want to join in and work for it. As to how that would work in a practical sense... RT have been around ages, why haven't they appealed to more fans? Because there was no need. Now there is a need and still they don't appeal - you suggest it is the organisation at fault, I suggest it is the people who won't join and work from within the organisation. Have you joined? I haven't and don't want to. I agree with @RoyMac5. People are essentially - cannot think of the right word, not lazy, not lethargic, not apethetic - but essentially they want someone else to do the work for them. It's not just restricted to football. Look at child poverty, climate change - huge issues. There are a few activists but only a few. But if you asked anyone, they would say they are against children living in poverty or changes to the climate that will bring about untold damage to the world's ecosystem and economy. However, apart from ocassional donations to charity and a bit of recycling, those people are not joining the activists to demand change. We all want a better outcome for our football club. RamsTrust and its members feel that they may - in some way - help to achieve that by their lobbying efforts. If people on here - or elsewhere - do not want to join their organization, that's fine. But some of the nitpicking on here is simply standing aside and picking fault with people for at least trying to do something positive. That said, it does sound as though there are folks that do have some genuine issues with things that have happened in the past. I have not lived around Derby for some years now, it's only in the past couple of years that I have found this forum, so I do not know the detail of those complaints. So, I cannot comment on those. What I would like to say though, is that if you would be interested in proactive action but you do have issues with RamsTrust, as it was or as it is, then you could either: start another organization or join RamsTrust, take an active role and change it from within. Edited October 29, 2021 by IslandExile angieram, Rich84, sage and 7 others 6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelBlimp Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 6 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: @RamsfanJim First bit: This is conditional upon the second bit as it can only representative of the wider fan base if you have enough members. The Rams Trust has always been a very small selection of the fan base, so that needs to be addressed to be truly representative. Second bit: I feel the lack of engagement with the fans has been a massive reason why membership numbers have been so low. This forum is by far the biggest group of Derby fans (overlapping with other groups of course) so it's been narrow minded of the Trust to only now come on to the forum to discuss things - even if an arm had to be twisted to get a RT representative on here. From being a member on here, you'd get a much better understanding of the differing views. Just from signing up and talking to fellow fans on this forum the Trust will have increased its membership, myself being one of them. I don't know the figures but if it's the case that this forum has more active members than Ramstrust, how the hell has it taken this long for Jim to appear? Do they not know how to use computers? We need social media savvy, proactive and energised people for this trust game. This reaching out now is all a bit too little, too late It's all a bit comfy there, or so it seems judging from what I've read. Saying that, my £2 is ready and warmed up in my front pocket, just in case the Cruise ship RamsTrust is starting to turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, ColonelBlimp said: I don't know the figures but if it's the case that this forum has more active members than Ramstrust, how the hell has it taken this long for Jim to appear? Do they not know how to use computers? We need social media savvy, proactive and energised people for this trust game. This reaching out now is all a bit too little, too late It's all a bit comfy there, or so it seems judging from what I've read. Saying that, my £2 is ready and warmed up in my front pocket, just in case the Cruise ship RamsTrust is starting to turn. Absolutely, I think that Jake Barker is now leading on comms, plus efforts to reach out on fan forums, plus regular tweets and Facebook posts. Website is active - and is best place to keep in touch. All that is free and open to non-members. If you pay your £2 you can also join an active Rams Trust mailing list, where you can debate issues and make suggestions to the Board. I got two questions put forward in the latest list to the EFL. We must have them rattled as they are now changing their mind about answering them! ? Ghost of Clough, Ram-Alf, RoyMac5 and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, angieram said: I got two questions put forward in the latest list to the EFL. We must have them rattled as they are now changing their mind about answering them! ? It's half term Angie, the intern they rely on for answering such questions is at Butlins with their parents. angieram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Rivals got IT savvy! angieram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Rivals got IT savvy! Think they started off IT savvy, Roy, as they formed on Twitter. It's the way to go for all groups, imo. And not just young people, look at all us oldies on here. (Sorry, know you're not as old as your name suggests.) RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 What do you get for your 2 quid....like mailing list, online discussion forum (not Twitter), newsletters, updates etc? I understand that you are then eligible to vote after you pay your subs but was looking for things beyond that as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 5 hours ago, IslandExile said: I agree with @RoyMac5. People are essentially - cannot think of the right word, not lazy, not lethargic, not apethetic - but essentially they want someone else to do the work for them. It's not just restricted to football. Look at child poverty, climate change - huge issues. There are a few activists but only a few. But if you asked anyone, they would say they are against children living in poverty or changes to the climate that will bring about untold damage to the world's ecosystem and economy. However, apart from ocassional donations to charity and a bit of recycling, those people are not joining the activists to demand change. We all want a better outcome for our football club. RamsTrust and its members feel that they may - in some way - help to achieve that by their lobbying efforts. If people on here - or elsewhere - do not want to join their organization, that's fine. But some of the nitpicking on here is simply standing aside and picking fault with people for at least trying to do something positive. That said, it does sound as though there are folks that do have some genuine issues with things that have happened in the past. I have not lived around Derby for some years now, it's only in the past couple of years that I have found this forum, so I do not know the detail of those complaints. So, I cannot comment on those. What I would like to say though, is that if you would be interested in proactive action but you do have issues with RamsTrust, as it was or as it is, then you could either: start another organization or join RamsTrust, take an active role and change it from within. Indeed. It's not the critic that counts... it's the man in the arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcfc_Sterling Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: Rivals got IT savvy! Rivals? far from rivals, Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 20 minutes ago, Dcfc_Sterling said: Rivals? far from rivals, Roy. Joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overlandandsea Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 7 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: First bit: how?! Second bit: If people joined then they could do some 'engaging'. There are lots of examples in the world where small amounts of people do all the work while others sit back and enjoy the work done. RT is no different. We're talking about democracy here. How many people even vote in their local council elections let alone get involved? There's only a vague consensus about things Derby County on this forum. Look on other DCFC forums and 'our' consensus often isn't theirs! Join RT and change things, don't join and accept what RT is. Join RT and change things, don't join and accept what RT is...isn't this the problem. I don't like the 'supporter representation' thing, or necessarily the co-operative/labour influences within RT but I won't be allowed to join to try and change things with new or different ideas. As others have said, if there was Trust/movement with 20,000 fans it would carry a lot of weight, but I can't see how that is going to happen. and a final thought, if the new owner does like the idea of a supporter sitting in some meetings, why should it come from RT - should it not be a democratic vote amongst all fans (maybe just ST holders) from those interested in the job, have the qualifications and time for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 hour ago, angieram said: (Sorry, know you're not as old as your name suggests.) Think I might be angieram ? angieram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 minute ago, overlandandsea said: Join RT and change things, don't join and accept what RT is...isn't this the problem. I don't like the 'supporter representation' thing, or necessarily the co-operative/labour influences within RT but I won't be allowed to join to try and change things with new or different ideas. What? Why not? Don't see what your point was. sage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: What? Why not? Don't see what your point was. It's in his name Roy...overlandandsea...Ve Haff vays of making you talk...no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overlandandsea Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: What? Why not? Don't see what your point was. I might want to join to change the rules, objectives to make it more appealing, as well as removing the fee...but as I dont agree with the rules as they stand, my application will get rejected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overlandandsea Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Just now, overlandandsea said: I might want to join to change the rules, objectives to make it more appealing, as well as removing the fee...but as I dont agree with the rules as they stand, my application will get rejected how many of those joining or have joined have read the aims, objectives, powers etc? and note the small print on the internal forum that try to stop you telling anything outside the internal forum (RT NDA, if you like). Heaven only knows what are saying on there about everyone else or trying to paper over the cracks of wayward board members Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: What? Why not? Don't see what your point was. If you disagree or criticise the board they close ranks and resist change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: Rivals got IT savvy! On the website you tick to accept terms and conditions but what are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overlandandsea Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, overlandandsea said: how many of those joining or have joined have read the aims, objectives, powers etc? and note the small print on the internal forum that try to stop you telling anything outside the internal forum (RT NDA, if you like). Heaven only knows what are saying on there about everyone else or trying to paper over the cracks of wayward board members For clarity, because I for one don't know, and I'm sure many others don't know either - can RT list any/all achievements in the last 5-10 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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