Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

6 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Can they appeal? Surely endless appeals will not be possible. 

It's the EFL. I'd be amazed if they haven't built some arbitrary, nonsense mechanism to allow them to simply redo everything until they get what they want. It seems to be the only thing they are capable of sorting out.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Just now, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

It's the EFL. I'd be amazed if they haven't built some arbitrary, nonsense mechanism to allow them to simply redo everything until they get what they want. It seems to be the only thing they are capable of sorting out.

I was under the impression the decision would be final but can’t remember where I saw this piece of information. 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

3 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

I was under the impression the decision would be final but can’t remember where I saw this piece of information. 

You can bet if that if we do 'get away with it' then they will go even harder on the points deduction for the other items under discussion. At this point in my mind they represent nothing more than a petty organisation of petulant man-children that have already made their minds up that they want us relegated and will stretch to any means to make sure it happens this season.

[Quagga]

7 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

I was under the impression the decision would be final but can’t remember where I saw this piece of information. 

There's no mention of a right of appeal in the EFL rules, and technically this is the appeal, so having an appeal against the appeal does start looking silly.

It's the EFL though so you wouldn't put it past them to try - or at the very least issue a press release, claiming that by appealing and being successful we've brought the game into disrepute and therefore deserve a further 12 point penalty

[May Contain Nuts]

28 minutes ago, Yani P said:

9 seems really light..no wonder Reading were happy to accept.

Indeed - they went £54m above £39m allowable losses!

As previously discussed anything over £15m sees no alteration to the 12 point baseline deduction.

Their starting point if it was dealt with by a disciplinary commission is 12 points, probably reduced to 11 because they admitted the breach, which would then be raised or lowered based upon mitigating or aggravating circumstances. You'd think that by not just breaching the limits but more than trebling the allowable losses that would see some extra points added... yet the EFL have offered them a 9 point deduction, at least 2 fewer than they'd likely have got from a DC panel.

Meanwhile our starting position would be a 4 point deduction, our supposed breaches are only a little above what's allowable and that's only down to a quibble over our amortisation policy,  and looking at how our actions have generally been viewed reasonably sympathetically with a £100k fine being our punishment... but the EFL want us to take the same points deduction as Reading, which is likely a number of points higher than we'd have got from a DC panel!

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Has anyone else ever considered that@MuespachRam might be the illegitimate love child of @Curtains?

Well, some blokes do, allegedly, wipe their *AHEM* on curtains after *AHEM* so anything's possible...

[DCFC1388]

If Reading do accept 9 points surely the Administrators will use that as the bar to negotiate our points deduction against? If Reading breached it by 3x as much as we did, for example £15m and we did by £5m then surely we would be looking at a 3 point deductions

[Gaspode]

21 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

You can bet if that if we do 'get away with it' then they will go even harder on the points deduction for the other items under discussion. At this point in my mind they represent nothing more than a petty organisation of petulant man-children that have already made their minds up that they want us relegated and will stretch to any means to make sure it happens this season.

Other points deductions are determined by the level of financial breach - don't think the P&S rules allow them to 'go harder'.....

[alram]

39 minutes ago, jono said:

Consider this. Mel was grudgingly happy to continue funding the club at 1 million a month while he looked for a buyer - BEFORE covid.
Covid arrives and as a result his private income falls by 30% . At the same time, because of Covid he has to find 2 Million a month to fund the club. 
 

so let’s look at it another way. hypothetically - Your house is repossessed and we all say it’s your fault …. But how did this happen, ? sadly for you, the firm you worked for made you redundant without notice, without redundancy pay and drove the uninsured company truck over your car. Oh and your neighbour is moaning to the council because you haven’t cut your hedge. Then the mortgage rate doubles overnight, a previous work pension scheme goes bust. To make it worse, every other firm that competed with your previous employers stopped recruiting and cut pay by half. 
 

Is it really your fault ? Well, I suppose in hindsight you should have insured your car fully comp and cut your hedge but that’s hardly the point is it ! 

We purchased Jozwiak under Covid, our loses were also 3m per month prior to covid. 

it is simply not to blame.

[Gaspode]

3 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

Indeed - they went £54m above £39m allowable losses!

As previously discussed anything over £15m sees no alteration to the 12 point baseline deduction.

Their starting point if it was dealt with by a disciplinary commission is 12 points, probably reduced to 11 because they admitted the breach, which would then be raised or lowered based upon mitigating or aggravating circumstances. You'd think that by not just breaching the limits but more than trebling the allowable losses that would see some extra points added... yet the EFL have offered them a 9 point deduction, at least 2 fewer than they'd likely have got from a DC panel.

Meanwhile our starting position would be a 4 point deduction, our supposed breaches are only a little above what's allowable and that's only down to a quibble over our amortisation policy,  and looking at how our actions have generally been viewed reasonably sympathetically with a £100k fine being our punishment... but the EFL want us to take the same points deduction as Reading, which is likely a number of points higher than we'd have got from a DC panel!

Has that been confirmed anywhere? - or has it just been repeated so many times on here that folk are now certain tthat they're trying to hit us with 9 points?

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, alram said:

We purchased Jozwiak under Covid, our loses were also 3m per month prior to covid. 

it is simply not to blame.

You know that do you? ?

What happened to our income from matches during covid - how much did we not get to spend?!

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, David said:

I get the feeling some fans do not want us to be successful in this appeal, and then want the EFL to throw the book at us which would guarantee relegation and why?....Well we apparently deserve it.

One fact is, the administrators have taken a look at the books, and believe they have a case and as a Derby fan, call me odd, but I hope they are successful and the points deduction is reduced.

I know, I know, controversial right?! I promise you I'm not trolling here, I genuinely want us to be successful in this appeal. 

Genuine question - bold statement which is fair enough, your feeling is based on what though?

[RoyMac5]

 

[Tyler Durden]

5 hours ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Nobody has a clue so stop trying to be all clever and come across as if you’ve worked it all out yourself. 

Haven't you hit the nail on the head though with your answer regards why people are having to speculate on why we went into administration?

[Crewton]

6 minutes ago, alram said:

We purchased Jozwiak under Covid, our loses were also 3m per month prior to covid. 

it is simply not to blame.

None of us have seen the accounts since the 2017/18 season, so you don't actually know what the pre-Covid losses were. And it's slightly irrelevant anyway, as is the position that other clubs were in.

If the Administrators can show that the club was in position to trade out of difficulty before the pandemic restrictions kicked-in, but the loss in revenues and the uncertainty from this season onwards meant that it would not be possible to do so without substantial additional funding (bearing in mind also the limits on owner-funding under FFP), then there is every possibility that they will be able to show that Covid was the Event that triggered Administration. It may not be enough to convince the Panel, but there is a very strong argument there - it simply depends on the figures.

[May Contain Nuts]

13 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

Has that been confirmed anywhere? - or has it just been repeated so many times on here that folk are now certain tthat they're trying to hit us with 9 points?

Of course it isn't confirmed, it would be impossible to do so until it's all dealt with! 

I know that despite years of people trusting John Percy as a reliable source of information he's now just considered a lying red dog, but the info came from his tweet, which makes it as close to the truth as any of us can possibly know....

 

 

[Ram-Alf]

22 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Well, some blokes do, allegedly, wipe their *AHEM* on curtains after *AHEM* so anything's possible...

All my Girlfriends had blinds, So I walked home with sticky fingers.

[Day]

13 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Genuine question - bold statement which is fair enough, your feeling is based on what though?

Went to see a palm reader at the weekend, was something she said. Can't reveal any details as I signed an NDA.

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, David said:

Went to see a palm reader at the weekend, was something she said. Can't reveal any details as I signed an NDA.

Joke aside I've seen nothing on this forum to suggest that people want us to lose the appeal and us get relegated.

I have seen indications that people at the club should be made accountable for us being in this position and that it is recognised accordingly but I don't classify that as the same thing.

My turn now then - I get a feeling that there is some kind of negative reinforcement going on so if the EFL don't uphold our appeal that that will just reinforce the stereotyped belief that the EFL are out to get us.

[Foreveram]

4 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

All my Girlfriends had blinds, So I walked home with sticky fingers.

Had or were?