Carnero Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, rammieib said: We sold 8000 ST's recently (Not ST's sold over a year ago). This will have created revenue, or confirmed revenue for those paying by DD, of circa £3 Million. Granted - we may have used a lot of that to pay the next installment to Arsenal, but that should keep us going for a while. Anyone know when/how often we receive TV Money? This is circa £8m - £10m in the Championship I believe? Last accounts (2018) had £8,098,997 of TV & Broadcasting, working out at £675k per month. rammieib 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Carnero said: Last accounts (2018) had £8,098,997 of TV & Broadcasting, working out at £675k per month. £6m of that was PL funding - £4.5m for being in the Championship, £1.1m related to the academy, and £400k relating to the community. I wouldn't be surprised if that falls due at the end of the season. Which leaves £2m actual TV money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, angieram said: While all the speculation about MSD and the stadium may be technically correct (I don't know) surely the fact that Morris thanked them especially for their recent co-operation means that they are working with us, rather than against us to find the best solution for the club? MSD is intent on one thing, the best solution for MSD. They’ll work with us if they are certain they get paid out in full. After that they’ll work with us until interests diverge. Quite possible that Mel will be savaged by them, however friendly things have been so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Just now, kevinhectoring said: MSD is intent on one thing, the best solution for MSD. They’ll work with us if they are certain they get paid out in full. After that they’ll work with us until interests diverge. Quite possible that Mel will be savaged by them, however friendly things have been so far Oh, I hadn't realised that. I was pleased to hear that they had been supportive so far and thought it might continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 20 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: It stands to reason that Mel (Gellaw 202) is still paying for the stadium in instalments - there's no way we've received all of the £80m since 2018 and spent it. That's £80m for the stadium, £30m turnover in 18/19, £25m turnover in 19/20 and £15m turnover in 20/21, and combined sales since the end of 17/18 of about £15 (£165m total) Those outstanding instalments will therefore likely be the club's biggest source of income for the next few months, unless we ask for an advance from the EFL (up to £6m PL funding). Without that money, the club folds, which is in no one's best interests, including MSD. For those unsure about which companies have filed for administration, it's the ones circled which are affected. The problem is Mel has pulled the plug. So 202 has no more cash to fund the deferred payments Unless MSD continues to fund They might conclude they need to, to preserve value I think you’re saying the reason 202 will not file is because it’s not in default. I doubt that’s right. I reckon the reason it has not filed yet is simply that it doesn’t need to. It doesn’t trade and MSD is the only creditor (Mel too perhaps) I did wonder whether HMRC might be a creditor of 202. The absence of a filing suggests not. Does that mean it’s not in the same tax group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 26 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: The problem is Mel has pulled the plug. So 202 has no more cash to fund the deferred payments Unless MSD continues to fund They might conclude they need to, to preserve value I think you’re saying the reason 202 will not file is because it’s not in default. I doubt that’s right. I reckon the reason it has not filed yet is simply that it doesn’t need to. It doesn’t trade and MSD is the only creditor (Mel too perhaps) I did wonder whether HMRC might be a creditor of 202. The absence of a filing suggests not. Does that mean it’s not in the same tax group? Pulling the plug from Gellaw 203 and subsidiaries. 204 and 202 haven't filed for admin, so all evidence points towards them still being fully funded by Mel when money is due to pay for the stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Fan Half Biscuit Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said: Pulling the plug from Gellaw 203 and subsidiaries. 204 and 202 haven't filed for admin, so all evidence points towards them still being fully funded by Mel when money is due to pay for the stadium With so many companies floating around can I ask Which company is receiving the rent for the stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 12 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: That's like saying someone who owns a house should be willing to invest £100k towards something... when they haven't even got the cash to buy a new washing machine. Whatever he's worth, £80m of that is the stadium. It comes down to whether you think Morris still has got money or not. If KM is correct and Morris is in transactions to buy businesses as we speak that suggests he's still got money in the bank but he's not willing to keep bankrolling the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Pulling the plug from Gellaw 203 and subsidiaries. 204 and 202 haven't filed for admin, so all evidence points towards them still being fully funded by Mel when money is due to pay for the stadium Well let’s see. I was a little confused by some of his comments about the stadium in the Dawes interview. They suggested he didn’t quite know what MSD could do to him. Or that he was assuming they would not do it. I think you would need to have material potential revenue from alternative use for what you outline to make sense. The lease rental is at an undervalue. And I don’t think keeping 202 afloat is consistent with him saying ‘I will no longer fund the club’ because it involves continuing to fund club losses indirectly. I suspect that is no change to how losses have previously been funded To turn the question around: if Mel has refused to fund 202 further, why WOULD the directors of 202 need to file ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 hours ago, SamUltraRam said: So if the HMRC are owed £46m as reported, do they have to be paid in full or do they take £x in the pound like other creditors may have to ? They need to get 25% of it under EFL rules I think. Otherwise we are in the national conference. Apart from that how much they get is a simple horse trade that is mostly driven by how much is left after MSD and football creditors are paid off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 We must be getting close to rebalancing the books if you look at the future position. Yes, we've got saddled with tens of millions of debt we need to pay, but if you look at a future trading position, the wage bill must be down to circa £12-£14m now, and other operating costs must be down towards £5-6m. Revenue must be circa £10m on ticket sales and £10m from TV/other commercial income. We've lost a lot of the high earners (maybe just Lawrence on greater than 20k?) but the business plan for the future must be looking better. Just a pity about the £60 Million in bills we still need to pay.... Carnero and ariotofmyown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 17 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: He doesn’t own the ground. MSD do. If he pays their loan off, the company that owns it owes the club £millions in purchase price. We have a ground to play in, I can’t think why MDS or Mel would want to deny the clue use of the ground. Has anyone suggested they will? Mel said the opposite. The club has a lease of the ground (but admittedly that lease might fall away on administration) Sure his legacy is tarnished if he leaves the club in a worse state than when he bought it. We would all like him to dig deeper into his pockets. But this suggestion he is obliged to restore it to its original position is nonsense I always understood he took a loan against the ground of 15 million? If he pays the loan back in full and that on the training ground they would come back to his ownership. If not why not . Is this another cluster he's caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 7 hours ago, kevinhectoring said: Well let’s see. I was a little confused by some of his comments about the stadium in the Dawes interview. They suggested he didn’t quite know what MSD could do to him. Or that he was assuming they would not do it. I think you would need to have material potential revenue from alternative use for what you outline to make sense. The lease rental is at an undervalue. And I don’t think keeping 202 afloat is consistent with him saying ‘I will no longer fund the club’ because it involves continuing to fund club losses indirectly. I suspect that is no change to how losses have previously been funded To turn the question around: if Mel has refused to fund 202 further, why WOULD the directors of 202 need to file ? There is only 1 director of 202 who is......Mel Morris..... the company has assets of £81,109,332 (presumably the stadium) but liabilities of £81,112,031 presumably loans owed to MSD and loans from Mel himself, I could only see a balance sheet there was no trading statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said: There is only 1 director of 202 who is......Mel Morris..... the company has assets of £81,109,332 (presumably the stadium) but liabilities of £81,112,031 presumably loans owed to MSD and loans from Mel himself, I could only see a balance sheet there was no trading statement. At least part of liabilities will be the money owed to the club for the purchase of PP I would have thought r_wilcockson, Rev and Carnero 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, Spanish said: At least part of liabilities will be the money owed to the club for the purchase of PP I would have thought How much do we reckon Mel owes the Club then? Do we send the bailiffs round to his gaff? Fla Ram, r_wilcockson and SaffyRam 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: How much do we reckon Mel owes the Club then? Do we send the bailiffs round to his gaff? No idea, I guess that all post sale funding has been by way of loan repayment rather than equity but I may be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Spanish said: No idea, I guess that all post sale funding has been by way of loan repayment rather than equity but I may be wrong Oh I'm not quite getting it, how does it work @Charlotte Ram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 26 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Oh I'm not quite getting it, how does it work @Charlotte Ram? Impossible to say until we see a set of accounts which as we are going into administration will never be seen, a set of accounts will be published by the administrator if the club comes out the other side, but nothing before, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said: Impossible to say until we see a set of accounts which as we are going into administration will never be seen, a set of accounts will be published by the administrator if the club comes out the other side, but nothing before, Hmmm. I didn't know that (or lots more about finance and accounting :D), seems kinda convenient in an odd way. atherstoneram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 49 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: How much do we reckon Mel owes the Club then? Do we send the bailiffs round to his gaff? So wont the administrators gather in what he owes the club for the stadium? My head hurts. The fact it is all so complicated was a real red flag. No wonder buyers scarpered atherstoneram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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