The Price of Football Podcast - Derby County in Administration

[kevinhectoring]

9 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

No, just enough to pay the tax bill and the loans he took on so we can have a ground to play in. He can sell the ground back to a new investor at 4 million a year for the next 15 years if he likes.  Or he can look for someone to pay his bills, not get it and be the man who destroyed a founder member of the football league.  If the club didn't have debt to carry it would have been sold 12 months ago.  EFL or not. Probably to a decent investor as well, rather than 50p millionaires who have come and gone.

He doesn’t own the ground. MSD do. If he pays their loan off, the company that owns it owes the club £millions in purchase price.

We have a ground to play in, I can’t think why MDS or Mel would want to deny the clue use of the ground. Has anyone suggested they will? Mel said the opposite. The club has a lease of the ground  (but admittedly that lease might fall away on administration)

Sure his legacy is tarnished if he leaves the club in a worse state than when he bought it. We would all like him to dig deeper into his pockets. But this suggestion he is obliged to restore it to its original position is nonsense

 

[GenBr]

8 hours ago, DCFC27 said:

Reports today, he’s done well in his other investments. Not overly  accurate but according to the Sunday times he’s worth £515m. Even if he’s worth half of that he can more than afford to keep the club running. Even if he’s worth £100m he’d still be one of the richest owners in the championship.

You got any links to the reports about his other investments? I would be interested to read them.

Sunday Times rich list and similar stuff is virtually all guesswork.

[Mihangel]

20 hours ago, StapenhillRam said:

A very interesting and worthwhile podcast with Keiran Maguire who I don't believe has any particular axe to grind with Derby County and so perhaps a more balance view than Mel's ramblings.

Unfortunately for some reason I can't get a link to the podcast to work so you may have to google it yourselves.

??  Yes, yes he does!

[Mihangel]

10 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yes but we don't *all* pretend to be experts yet often have glaring holes in our knowledge! ?

Quite - Remember kids, those who can do, those who can't teach....

Apologies to any teachers out there, I'm just mocking this particular teacher.

[Boycie]

8 hours ago, DCFC27 said:

I don’t think it is. His house isn’t worth £515m fella, It’s a nice house in Turnditch, excavated underneath with millions of pounds worth of cars. But even if we take them into account it’s not worth that. 
 

He would need to cash in some of his other investments, but so he should. 

Turnditch?  Turnleft a bit more like.

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

He doesn’t own the ground. MSD do.

Is this fact or speculation?

[Crewton]

54 minutes ago, GenBr said:

You got any links to the reports about his other investments? I would be interested to read them.

Sunday Times rich list and similar stuff is virtually all guesswork.

He's not in this year's list, but it starts at around £550m, so he's below the threshold. 

Their figures for people with mainly private wealth, rather than visible assets, major shareholdings etc, are pretty much guesswork. 

I'd say few people know what Mel is actually worth now, which makes it difficult to prove how easily or otherwise he could make the situation better for the club and employees. 

[kevinhectoring]

13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Is this fact or speculation?

The stadium company’s file at companies house shows that the company has given MSD security over PP. This means MM can do nothing with PP until they are paid off in full particularly now all the MSD loans are in default. I’d think MSD also have security over MM’s shares in the stadium owning company but not checked. 

The club’s real protection comes mostly from the stadium lease. I’d be interested if anyone on here knows whether this sort of lease can typically be revoked if the lessee goes into administration. 
 

To complete the picture MSD do (obviously) have security over the club’s rights under the lease. They really do control everything through their security. What will be key in MSD’s decision making will be the relationship between how much MSD is owed and how much they or an administrator could sell the club for. 
 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

The stadium company’s file at companies house shows that the company has given MSD security over PP. This means MM can do nothing with PP until they are paid off in full particularly now all the MSD loans are in default. I’d think MSD also have security over MM’s shares in the stadium owning company but not checked. 

The club’s real protection comes mostly from the stadium lease. I’d be interested if anyone on here knows whether this sort of lease can typically be revoked if the lessee goes into administration. 
 

To complete the picture MSD do (obviously) have security over the club’s rights under the lease. They really do control everything through their security. What will be key in MSD’s decision making will be the relationship between how much MSD is owed and how much they or an administrator could sell the club for. 
 

How do you know MM (or the company he owns) has defaulted on the stadium?

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

The stadium company’s file at companies house shows that the company has given MSD security over PP. This means MM can do nothing with PP until they are paid off in full particularly now all the MSD loans are in default. I’d think MSD also have security over MM’s shares in the stadium owning company but not checked. 

The club’s real protection comes mostly from the stadium lease. I’d be interested if anyone on here knows whether this sort of lease can typically be revoked if the lessee goes into administration. 
 

To complete the picture MSD do (obviously) have security over the club’s rights under the lease. They really do control everything through their security. What will be key in MSD’s decision making will be the relationship between how much MSD is owed and how much they or an administrator could sell the club for. 
 

So MSD do not own the ground.

How do you know Gellaw are in default on their loan repayments?

[kevinhectoring]

20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How do you know MM (or the company he owns) has defaulted on the stadium?

Undoubtedly it’s all now in default - the giving of notice of intention is probably the last of multiple breaches of the MSD loan terms. Not paying HMRC is a whopper for example. (It’s anyone’s guess whether there are actual payment defaults but any default triggers MSD’s rights )

[StarterForTen]

38 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

The club’s real protection comes mostly from the stadium lease. I’d be interested if anyone on here knows whether this sort of lease can typically be revoked if the lessee goes into administration.

In all of the commercial property leases I have been party too there has been an insolvency clause that terminates the rights of the lease holder. Mind you, these have all been for relatively small office leases, not an £80m football stadium!

[kevinhectoring]

25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So MSD do not own the ground.

How do you know Gellaw are in default on their loan repayments?

Technically they do own it - that’s the effect of their security - but what matters is they have absolute control over it. 

MSD’s rights to enforce and sell it don’t require payment default. They require any old default under the loan terms. There’s no doubt there is a default (not paying HMRC, intention to appoint administrator etc etc)

The loan terms are private but MSD will have a clause which allows them to jack up the interest rate if there’s a default. Ouch 

[Ghost of Clough]

10 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Undoubtedly it’s all now in default - the giving of notice of intention is probably the last of multiple breaches of the MSD loan terms. Not paying HMRC is a whopper for example. (It’s anyone’s guess whether there are actual payment defaults but any default triggers MSD’s rights )

Neither of Mel, Gellaw 202, nor Gellaw 204 has defaulted on the stadium.

[kevinhectoring]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Neither of Mel, Gellaw 202, nor Gellaw 204 has defaulted on the stadium.

Don’t get your meaning  I’m pretty sure any default by the club will be a default under all aspects of the MSD deal 

Edited September 21, 2021 by kevinhectoring

[SamUltraRam]

So if the HMRC are owed £46m as reported, do they have to be paid in full or do they take £x in the pound like other creditors may have to ?

[angieram]

11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Don’t get your meaning  I’m pretty sure any default by the club will be a default under all aspects of the MSD deal 

While all the speculation about MSD and the stadium may be technically correct (I don't know) surely the fact that Morris thanked them especially for their recent co-operation means that they are working with us, rather than against us to find the best solution for the club?

[rammieib]

We sold 8000 ST's recently (Not ST's sold over a year ago). This will have created revenue, or confirmed revenue for those paying by DD, of circa £3 Million.

Granted - we may have used a lot of that to pay the next installment to Arsenal, but that should keep us going for a while.

Anyone know when/how often we receive TV Money? This is circa £8m - £10m in the Championship I believe?

[BramcoteRam84]

It is possible for someone else to provide funding through this process, could be another interested party, a party with interests e.g. MSD or Mel could continue to fund us, he never said he would stop funding us - as the question was never asked, but did say he would work with the administrators to find the best purchaser, he won’t be able to do that if we liquidate. If he truly doesn’t want this club to go into liquidation then surely he needs to make sure someone is funding us. Many of us including me have already called him out as a charlatan and a disgrace, im still hoping (only hoping) we’ve all jumped the gun.

[Ghost of Clough]

20 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Don’t get your meaning  I’m pretty sure any default by the club will be a default under all aspects of the MSD deal 

It stands to reason that Mel (Gellaw 202) is still paying for the stadium in instalments - there's no way we've received all of the £80m since 2018 and spent it. That's £80m for the stadium, £30m turnover in 18/19, £25m turnover in 19/20 and £15m turnover in 20/21, and combined sales since the end of 17/18 of about £15 (£165m total)
Those outstanding instalments will therefore likely be the club's biggest source of income for the next few months, unless we ask for an advance from the EFL (up to £6m PL funding). Without that money, the club folds, which is in no one's best interests, including MSD.

 

 

 

For those unsure about which companies have filed for administration, it's the ones circled which are affected.