The colours of 1884 (please read)

[Macintosh]

20 minutes ago, loweman2 said:

sorry i didnt finish the previous post correctly, it certainly is a few of the Derby players but we concluded that it could be a mix of opposition players one is wearing a kentcricket jumper so could have been a touring side friendly. would be great to identify more of the players.

 

Winters still have the glass plate negative and could enlarge it huge, maybe there is a date on one of the caps? They did play a game against Kent in 1878. Winters also discovered a bricked up cellar a few years back with undiscovered glass plate negatives. I'm not sure if there were any Rams images amongst them.

 

Here's my Bloomer picture, against Southampton in 1899, in the cup at the Dell. We won – obviously – 2-1. He's in there somewhere, and we'd be in the striped shirts back then.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

Winters still have the glass plate negative and could enlarge it huge, maybe there is a date on one of the caps? They did play a game against Kent in 1878. Winters also discovered a bricked up cellar a few years back with undiscovered glass plate negatives. I'm not sure if there were any Rams images amongst them.

That sounds fascinating. 

[Macintosh]

15 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

Winters still have the glass plate negative and could enlarge it huge, maybe there is a date on one of the caps? They did play a game against Kent in 1878. Winters also discovered a bricked up cellar a few years back with undiscovered glass plate negatives. I'm not sure if there were any Rams images amongst them.

 

Here's my Bloomer picture, against Southampton in 1899, in the cup at the Dell. We won – obviously – 2-1. He's in there somewhere, and we'd be in the striped shirts back then.

Whoops! No we weren't, Southampton had striped shirts from 1896, so ignore that wrong bit of history I introduced. There looks more than the 20,000 estimated fans at the newly-built Dell. there must be a thousand on the roofs! Here's Southampton scoring in that same game.

[loweman2]

1 hour ago, Macintosh said:

Winters still have the glass plate negative and could enlarge it huge, maybe there is a date on one of the caps? They did play a game against Kent in 1878. Winters also discovered a bricked up cellar a few years back with undiscovered glass plate negatives. I'm not sure if there were any Rams images amongst them.

 

Here's my Bloomer picture, against Southampton in 1899, in the cup at the Dell. We won – obviously – 2-1. He's in there somewhere, and we'd be in the striped shirts back then.

love that, must be an away game due to the stripes and also the proximity of that church, look at them all on the roof !

[loweman2]

2 hours ago, Spanish said:

maybe it is the slight resemblance to jockey silk?  Might look less flashy in heavy cotton

These shirts are made of a very heavy drill cotton as used at the time.

[Spanish]

10 minutes ago, loweman2 said:

These shirts are made of a very heavy drill cotton as used at the time.

ok, they looked shiny on some pics

[Premier ram]

Stunning work mate , congratulations

[Ken Tram]

I would wear a version of that - on a particularly self-confident day.

[Macintosh]

2 hours ago, loweman2 said:

These shirts are made of a very heavy drill cotton as used at the time.

I was looking up Cambridge Blue to try to gauge exactly what colour it is, this image here threw me because it looks a lot bluer than the others that do look green. The fourth image on the first page looks a perfect match on my screen to my Pantone book. It is described as Pantone 557, a medium tone of spring green. Even Cambridge University cause confusion, that the rugby team Cambridge Blue colour is different from the rowing team Cambridge Blue colour which has more yellow added to distinguish them. If you compare the rugby and rowing you can see the very slight difference.

[loweman2]

48 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

I was looking up Cambridge Blue to try to gauge exactly what colour it is, this image here threw me because it looks a lot bluer than the others that do look green. The fourth image on the first page looks a perfect match on my screen to my Pantone book. It is described as Pantone 557, a medium tone of spring green. Even Cambridge University cause confusion, that the rugby team Cambridge Blue colour is different from the rowing team Cambridge Blue colour which has more yellow added to distinguish them. If you compare the rugby and rowing you can see the very slight difference.

 

its definitely the greener that last image it was the light, but they did switch to that more blue colour on the following shirt, we traced the cambridge colour right back 

[Macintosh]

6 minutes ago, loweman2 said:

its definitely the greener that last image it was the light, but they did switch to that more blue colour on the following shirt, we traced the cambridge colour right back 

I hope people reading this thread now realise the amount of hours and dedication that goes into something that seems so simple, yet is a minefield to navigate and usually with very little help. You'd think one of those early player's relatives has a shirt somewhere in the loft. I wonder if Ben Spilsbury had anything to do with it, I know he was a Cambridge Blue.

[loweman2]

1 hour ago, Macintosh said:

I hope people reading this thread now realise the amount of hours and dedication that goes into something that seems so simple, yet is a minefield to navigate and usually with very little help. You'd think one of those early player's relatives has a shirt somewhere in the loft. I wonder if Ben Spilsbury had anything to do with it, I know he was a Cambridge Blue.

Funny you say that, on the team photo that we got colourised the gentleman by the name of Phil Martin who it turns out was the actual source behind the national football museum who picked up on the green in the new spare report of the first game back in 2001 got in contact, he had never seen the team photo but studied it and said it was odd how there were 12 players in it, he then deduced it would have been the game in January 1885 where Derby County played Cambridge university and if you look closely you can see that spilsbury isn’t in fact wearing a Derby kit he is actually wearing his Cambridge university kit, and there is a newspaper report showing that he did actually play for Cambridge in that match ! That is very clever research at its finest, so we know when the oldest known team photo was taken

[Pearl Ram]

I quite enjoy these old press cuttings, the style of reporting is very sporting and gentlemanly.

I like plucky play, playing up grandly and a goalie called Farquharson. ?

[Macintosh]

58 minutes ago, loweman2 said:

Funny you say that, on the team photo that we got colourised the gentleman by the name of Phil Martin who it turns out was the actual source behind the national football museum who picked up on the green in the new spare report of the first game back in 2001 got in contact, he had never seen the team photo but studied it and said it was odd how there were 12 players in it, he then deduced it would have been the game in January 1885 where Derby County played Cambridge university and if you look closely you can see that spilsbury isn’t in fact wearing a Derby kit he is actually wearing his Cambridge university kit, and there is a newspaper report showing that he did actually play for Cambridge in that match ! That is very clever research at its finest, so we know when the oldest known team photo was taken

I'd never noticed there was 12 of them! How nice that John McMillan sent this in, only five years later he was starring with Steve Bloomer. I'll see if I have any early team groups to share. I don't think I've ever seen an action image of the Rams playing in these colours. You can see why Frank Sugg played centre-forward, he's huge, and also played two cricket Tests against Australia. There must be some Sugg's still living in Ilkeston or this area that are related. Only other game I saw recorded during that season was losing to Walsall Town 7-0.

[Ovine_Interferer]

On 27/07/2021 at 19:26, Rev said:

What material was it originally made from @loweman2?

Probably either hessian or burlap?

[loweman2]

6 hours ago, Stockport Ram said:

Superb thread. I love this sort of stuff. It is what first got me fascinated with the early modern Olympic games, in particular the athletics.

 

Brilliant work from Loweman and Macintosh, many thanks to you both.

Thanks @Stockport Ram great to know that is getting people thinking ! The past is where we evolved from ! 

[Yani P]

8 hours ago, Stockport Ram said:

Superb thread. I love this sort of stuff. It is what first got me fascinated with the early modern Olympic games, in particular the athletics.

 

Brilliant work from Loweman and Macintosh, many thanks to you both.

I still love watching that old movie reel of Dorando Pietri in the marathon..

[IslandExile]

1 hour ago, loweman2 said:

Thanks @Stockport Ram great to know that is getting people thinking ! The past is where we evolved from ! 

"The only thing to look forward to is the past".

(Whatever happened to the Likely Lads theme tune)

[r_wilcockson]

I honestly can't stop thinking about this modern take that Paul Limbert knocked up on twitter! 

[Ellafella]

On 31/07/2021 at 20:09, r_wilcockson said:

I honestly can't stop thinking about this modern take that Paul Limbert knocked up on twitter! 

Lovely kit indeed. With gold shorts ? and chocolate socks would be lush. May need the rampant ram ? but otherwise outstanding. Will the kit committee go for it? Doubt it.