Rooney, manager, mid-term report

[Van der MoodHoover]

18 minutes ago, Beetroot said:

God everybody's started talking so posh since @Tyler Durden's turned up with his massive words.

You do realise that when football starts up again and you're in a boozer before the game you can't start talking like this to pissed up Derby fans. They won't like it.

There aren't a lot of pissed up Derby fans in my local boozer on a match day mate. Maybe the odd shooting party or trout fisherman.... 

We like it if our vowels are flattened and our aitches not dropped... ?

[Millenniumram]

As I’ve said in other threads, I was never a fan of Rooney’s initial appointment - but even I don’t think calling for his head is justified right now. He took over a terrible squad that had made an horrendous start to the season, so he’s done a good job so far pulling us out the relegation zone in my book. The job is not yet done of course, but we’ve just had a run of poor form recently. At the moment it’s nothing more than that - if it becomes 9/10 games without a win, then things are obviously different, and you’d have to consider a change to retain our Championship status. But right now we need to give him a chance. 

Do think that it’s fair to call some of his tactics into question though. Think the comparison to Cocu is a good one, as I haven’t really seen a progression in style since Rooney took over. Which is no surprise, considering he was actually a member of Cocu’s coaching team - that’s one of the reasons I didn’t want Rooney, we needed a clean break from the previous regime. The negative approach to games that defined Cocu’s reign is still very much prevalent. We still look to nab one goal and shut up shop, which is a very dangerous tactic. We still play more defensive players than attacking players in midfield, to focus on protecting the defence, rather than supporting the attack. Which means we still end up passing sideways far too much, because we have no one to play through in midfield. 

Under Cocu, we played a slow, defensive, ineffective possession based game. Under Rooney, we play a slow, ineffective, defensive game, with the odd hoof thrown in. So how much has really changed? Of course results did initially improve, when Rooney stripped us back to basics, and put workhorse players in to simply try and out-fight the opposition. But that has its limits, you’re never going to score enough goals when you leave your best technical players out the team. And how much of that upturn in form was down to Bielik? He’s levels above anything else in our squad, and our performances since his injury suggest to me that he was the main factor in that run of wins. 

So yeah, overall, Rooney is doing ok so far. His remit it to keep us up, and at the moment, he’s just about managing it. But this season is a long way from over. We need to score more goals, and to do that, Rooney needs to be braver and play more attacking football. He needs to turn this slump around and fast, otherwise it will become very clear that he had very little influence on our good form at all, other than not being on the pitch himself - it was all down to Bielik.

[Pearson.]

On 14/03/2021 at 21:07, Chris_Martin said:

But the fact is we have been playing poorly for probably 8-10 games now

And in periods of those games very poorly and devoid of ideas due to the incompetent management/guidance of Rooney/McClaren.

If the performances are there the results will eventually fall in your favor. Ours have been terrible, without a goal being scored in the last four games, yet we still have supporters defending the indefensible.

Already stated in earlier post but I am/was aghast as to why Morris appointed Rooney. Surely a seasoned individual with a tough business background wasn't blinded by the name and some form of fantasy?

The reality, we are in a mess as a result of having appointed an unproven novice who doesn't have a clue. Why could't we have the foresight of Brentford/Frank, Reading/Paunovic, Barnsley/Ismael and Cardiff/McCarthy all of whom have recently appointed experienced and proven managers. Is it an accident that all these clubs now have an eye on play off spots. While I'm on it, a quick nod to Norwich who realized what it is all about and are no reaping the rewards.

Hopefully a returning Lawrence and the inability of Wycombe, Sheff Wed and Birmingham to threaten us, we should retain our league status. If we however we continue to employ Rooney/McClaren next year our dream of Premiership football will advance, yet again,  another few years. 

Morris, employ a proven manager and stick with him for the time period required, which is at least three years in my estimation.

[Chris_Martin]

34 minutes ago, Pearson. said:

And in periods of those games very poorly and devoid of ideas due to the incompetent management/guidance of Rooney/McClaren.

If the performances are there the results will eventually fall in your favor. Ours have been terrible, without a goal being scored in the last four games, yet we still have supporters defending the indefensible.

Already stated in earlier post but I am/was aghast as to why Morris appointed Rooney. Surely a seasoned individual with a tough business background wasn't blinded by the name and some form of fantasy?

The reality, we are in a mess as a result of having appointed an unproven novice who doesn't have a clue. Why could't we have the foresight of Brentford/Frank, Reading/Paunovic, Barnsley/Ismael and Cardiff/McCarthy all of whom have recently appointed experienced and proven managers. Is it an accident that all these clubs now have an eye on play off spots. While I'm on it, a quick nod to Norwich who realized what it is all about and are no reaping the rewards.

Hopefully a returning Lawrence and the inability of Wycombe, Sheff Wed and Birmingham to threaten us, we should retain our league status. If we however we continue to employ Rooney/McClaren next year our dream of Premiership football will advance, yet again,  another few years. 

Morris, employ a proven manager and stick with him for the time period required, which is at least three years in my estimation.

McClaren is not involved in the tactics or coaching.

[DCFC Kicks]

7 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

McClaren is not involved in the tactics or coaching.

WHY?!?!?!?!?

[Chris_Martin]

28 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

WHY?!?!?!?!?

wish he was.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

9 hours ago, Pearson. said:

And in periods of those games very poorly and devoid of ideas due to the incompetent management/guidance of Rooney/McClaren.

If the performances are there the results will eventually fall in your favor. Ours have been terrible, without a goal being scored in the last four games, yet we still have supporters defending the indefensible.

Already stated in earlier post but I am/was aghast as to why Morris appointed Rooney. Surely a seasoned individual with a tough business background wasn't blinded by the name and some form of fantasy?

The reality, we are in a mess as a result of having appointed an unproven novice who doesn't have a clue. Why could't we have the foresight of Brentford/Frank, Reading/Paunovic, Barnsley/Ismael and Cardiff/McCarthy all of whom have recently appointed experienced and proven managers. Is it an accident that all these clubs now have an eye on play off spots. While I'm on it, a quick nod to Norwich who realized what it is all about and are no reaping the rewards.

Hopefully a returning Lawrence and the inability of Wycombe, Sheff Wed and Birmingham to threaten us, we should retain our league status. If we however we continue to employ Rooney/McClaren next year our dream of Premiership football will advance, yet again,  another few years. 

Morris, employ a proven manager and stick with him for the time period required, which is at least three years in my estimation.

What's Mac been thrown into the mix for pearson,he's not involved in the training and tactics....unfortunately for us.

[Woodley Ram]

11 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

As I’ve said in other threads, I was never a fan of Rooney’s initial appointment - but even I don’t think calling for his head is justified right now. He took over a terrible squad that had made an horrendous start to the season, so he’s done a good job so far pulling us out the relegation zone in my book. The job is not yet done of course, but we’ve just had a run of poor form recently. At the moment it’s nothing more than that - if it becomes 9/10 games without a win, then things are obviously different, and you’d have to consider a change to retain our Championship status. But right now we need to give him a chance. 

Do think that it’s fair to call some of his tactics into question though. Think the comparison to Cocu is a good one, as I haven’t really seen a progression in style since Rooney took over. Which is no surprise, considering he was actually a member of Cocu’s coaching team - that’s one of the reasons I didn’t want Rooney, we needed a clean break from the previous regime. The negative approach to games that defined Cocu’s reign is still very much prevalent. We still look to nab one goal and shut up shop, which is a very dangerous tactic. We still play more defensive players than attacking players in midfield, to focus on protecting the defence, rather than supporting the attack. Which means we still end up passing sideways far too much, because we have no one to play through in midfield. 

Under Cocu, we played a slow, defensive, ineffective possession based game. Under Rooney, we play a slow, ineffective, defensive game, with the odd hoof thrown in. So how much has really changed? Of course results did initially improve, when Rooney stripped us back to basics, and put workhorse players in to simply try and out-fight the opposition. But that has its limits, you’re never going to score enough goals when you leave your best technical players out the team. And how much of that upturn in form was down to Bielik? He’s levels above anything else in our squad, and our performances since his injury suggest to me that he was the main factor in that run of wins. 

So yeah, overall, Rooney is doing ok so far. His remit it to keep us up, and at the moment, he’s just about managing it. But this season is a long way from over. We need to score more goals, and to do that, Rooney needs to be braver and play more attacking football. He needs to turn this slump around and fast, otherwise it will become very clear that he had very little influence on our good form at all, other than not being on the pitch himself - it was all down to Bielik.

Excellent post, agree with all of that. I would add that when he took over we became more direct and got the ball forward more quickly. I think over the last few games (apart from Barnsley) we have started to play in a more Cocu style, playing out from the back more.

[RamNut]

I’m not sure that doing better than Cocu necessarily registers as “doing a good job”. 
Doing a less bad job maybe.

Mel likes to rub shoulders with the big names. that’s why we had Paul Ince, Frank Lampard and now Wayne Rooney.

rooney was not Cocu's signing. He was a star struck MM signing.

unfortunately it was a typically badly researched signing. we signed him after his legs as gone. As Peter Taylor would say “he’d shot it”. By any measure the massive wages was not money well spent. His presence as a wannabe manager was also a ticking time bomb. 
Similarly Rosenior was foisted upon Cocu. Cocu was lumbered with these appointments. He seemed to go along with things in a laid back, slightly vacant style. 
The simple facts are that we’ve seen the same tinkering, and lack of pattern. The football is poor. 11 points from the last ten matches is not good and we haven’t scored for 6 hours.
The simple facts are that the manager has no previous managerial experience; no track record; and lacks the necessary qualifications. He doesn’t look like Mr Motivator either.

He has had longer in charge than Colin Todd, Terry westley, and Nigel Pearson. By the end of the season he will also have had longer than Phil Brown and Paul Clement. That’s enough. 

[Jase116]

I initially wasn’t a fan of Rooney taking over, but I believe he is doing ok as things stand, I think from the start he wanted to make us hard to beat,which he has done, we are not rolling over to sides like earlier in the season, not saying performances attacking wise are much better, but defensively we are.

   The big problem we have is not getting the right balance of being solid and attacking, we all want sibbo/Watson being given a chance, maybe together with Shinnie holding, which I think would mean no jason Knight, it’s so obvious though we haven’t got a centre forward good enough, big Col has done a fantastic job short term, but looks shattered, Gregory unfortunately hasn’t hit the ground running, personally I thing both of them need a quick/penalty area player around them, picking up scraps.

 I personally think we need to just get by this season by hook or crook and survive, and judge Wayne on the squad he puts together next season, at the moment he is in a difficult situation that the players are devoid of confidence or just not good enough, I will judge WR next season on the style of football and results next season.

[Van der MoodHoover]

So getting done 4-0 by Cardiff and worse, 3-0 by a team desperately trying to catch us isn't being "rolled over"? 

Add in the 3-0 at boro under the gang of 4 and we've had more tonkings post Cocu than with him, yet still our dire position is all attributed to his tenure. 

Strange really. 

[Malagaram]

If this is an end of term report I would write " Must try harder"

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

11 hours ago, Pearson. said:

And in periods of those games very poorly and devoid of ideas due to the incompetent management/guidance of Rooney/McClaren.

If the performances are there the results will eventually fall in your favor. Ours have been terrible, without a goal being scored in the last four games, yet we still have supporters defending the indefensible.

Already stated in earlier post but I am/was aghast as to why Morris appointed Rooney. Surely a seasoned individual with a tough business background wasn't blinded by the name and some form of fantasy?

The reality, we are in a mess as a result of having appointed an unproven novice who doesn't have a clue. Why could't we have the foresight of Brentford/Frank, Reading/Paunovic, Barnsley/Ismael and Cardiff/McCarthy all of whom have recently appointed experienced and proven managers. Is it an accident that all these clubs now have an eye on play off spots. While I'm on it, a quick nod to Norwich who realized what it is all about and are no reaping the rewards.

Hopefully a returning Lawrence and the inability of Wycombe, Sheff Wed and Birmingham to threaten us, we should retain our league status. If we however we continue to employ Rooney/McClaren next year our dream of Premiership football will advance, yet again,  another few years. 

Morris, employ a proven manager and stick with him for the time period required, which is at least three years in my estimation.

We achieved playoffs with Lampard, an unproven novice. We struggled with an experienced manager in Pearson and Cocu this season. This poor form is not all down to Rooney. 

[Beetle]

Regardless of the manager the players are not good enough. He needs to keep it simple, stop changing tactics/team all the time and get to 50 points. When he does that send the loans back (keep the ones we might try and buy) and play the youngsters.

[VulcanRam]

12 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

As I’ve said in other threads, I was never a fan of Rooney’s initial appointment - but even I don’t think calling for his head is justified right now. He took over a terrible squad that had made an horrendous start to the season, so he’s done a good job so far pulling us out the relegation zone in my book. The job is not yet done of course, but we’ve just had a run of poor form recently. At the moment it’s nothing more than that - if it becomes 9/10 games without a win, then things are obviously different, and you’d have to consider a change to retain our Championship status. But right now we need to give him a chance. 

Do think that it’s fair to call some of his tactics into question though. Think the comparison to Cocu is a good one, as I haven’t really seen a progression in style since Rooney took over. Which is no surprise, considering he was actually a member of Cocu’s coaching team - that’s one of the reasons I didn’t want Rooney, we needed a clean break from the previous regime. The negative approach to games that defined Cocu’s reign is still very much prevalent. We still look to nab one goal and shut up shop, which is a very dangerous tactic. We still play more defensive players than attacking players in midfield, to focus on protecting the defence, rather than supporting the attack. Which means we still end up passing sideways far too much, because we have no one to play through in midfield. 

Under Cocu, we played a slow, defensive, ineffective possession based game. Under Rooney, we play a slow, ineffective, defensive game, with the odd hoof thrown in. So how much has really changed? Of course results did initially improve, when Rooney stripped us back to basics, and put workhorse players in to simply try and out-fight the opposition. But that has its limits, you’re never going to score enough goals when you leave your best technical players out the team. And how much of that upturn in form was down to Bielik? He’s levels above anything else in our squad, and our performances since his injury suggest to me that he was the main factor in that run of wins. 

So yeah, overall, Rooney is doing ok so far. His remit it to keep us up, and at the moment, he’s just about managing it. But this season is a long way from over. We need to score more goals, and to do that, Rooney needs to be braver and play more attacking football. He needs to turn this slump around and fast, otherwise it will become very clear that he had very little influence on our good form at all, other than not being on the pitch himself - it was all down to Bielik.

Great post. If my memory serves me right, to begin with we did play quicker more attacking football with an apparent beginning of a style of play? And we won games. It's only in the last four or five we seem to have slumped back into Cocu ball. Which has predictably seen results suffer. 

I'd love to know what's changed in Rooney's mindset.

[TomTom92]

Unfair to pass judgement at this moment in time. Come the end of the season we’ll know what Wayne’s about.  
  
He’s given us a shot at survival which I’m grateful for. However having done the hard work we’ve taken the foot off the gas and are well in truly back in the fight for survival. Whether we like it or not it’s going to go down to the last 3 if not last match of the season.

He’s not been backed financially and the squad is poor so not sure we can expect too much. Fingers crossed for survival and new investment. 
  
However I do note that it’s a shame Sheffield United hung on to Wilder for so long.

C+

[Anag Ram]

I think some of our recent issues have come from Rooney trying to shoehorn in his loan signings. 

We were going along quite nicely with a stable back five (inc Marshall) who knew each other's game. 

Knight has gone off the boil a bit but by far our biggest issue is up front where we look clueless and devoid of confidence. 

Gregory is snatching at chances, CKR isn't even in the right areas for chances and no one else in the team looks like they want to score a goal. 

[Pearson.]

12 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

McClaren is not involved in the tactics or coaching.

McClaren was employed as an adviser and interface between the coaching staff and board. Be assured he is having conversations with the novice Rooney and giving his insight and guidance for what it is worth.

[Pearson.]

1 hour ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

We achieved playoffs with Lampard, an unproven novice. We struggled with an experienced manager in Pearson and Cocu this season. This poor form is not all down to Rooney. 

Extremely fortunate to make the play offs after robbing Leeds and totally exposed tactically in the final by a proven manager. His, fortunate for us, Premiership loans dropping to this level masked his inadequacies. Its no accident that Chelsea have now kicked on from mid table obscurity to challenge for a Champions league spot at the behest of a proven manager.

[Chris_Martin]

24 minutes ago, Pearson. said:

McClaren was employed as an adviser and interface between the coaching staff and board. Be assured he is having conversations with the novice Rooney and giving his insight and guidance for what it is worth.

He is employed as technical director and advisor to the 'new owners'.  It was made clear that he will not get involved with the first team.