Rooney, manager, mid-term report

[Tyler Durden]

Thats only because he had Bielik playing for him according to more esteemed posters than myself. Allegedly. 

[Curtains]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

Thats only because he had Bielik playing for him according to more esteemed posters than myself. Allegedly. 

Of course but he’s injured now. 
 

We have options and I thought Watson once again did well.

We were very unlucky yesterday 

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, Curtains said:

Of course but he’s injured now. 
 

We have options and I thought Watson once again did well.

We were very unlucky yesterday 

The good job he is doing has been directly correlated by other posters to having one player available that Cocu didn't.

So in fact the inference is that he hasn't been doing a good job it's down to good fortune. 

[Curtains]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

The good job he is doing has been directly correlated by other posters to having one player available that Cocu didn't.

So in fact the inference is that he hasn't been doing a good job it's down to good fortune. 

If you remember I was wanting Cocu and Rowett to stay and I also like Lampard.

For goodness sake give Rooney a chance 

[Curtains]

What ! 

[AndyinLiverpool]

38 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Thats only because he had Bielik playing for him according to more esteemed posters than myself. Allegedly. 

It's not that it's 'only' Bielik but the difference between the Games Rooney has been in charge when Bielik has played and when he hasn't is stark.

Without Bielik, Rooney's record is Pl 13, W 3, L 7, D 3 for 12 points

With Bielik, Rooney's record is Pl 12, W 6, L 3, D 3 for 21 points

Of course both of these is better than Cocu's record of Pl 13, W 1, L 9, D 3 for 6 points. However, my real concern is the way we have played recently. We haven't won for 5 games and 3 of those have been defeats. That's comparable with Cocu. The heady days of 3 wins 10 days against Middlesbrough, Wycombe and Huddersfield seem a very long time ago. The wins against Swansea, Bristol City and Bournemouth seem pre-historically distant.

[Tyler Durden]

10 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It's not that it's 'only' Bielik but the difference between the Games Rooney has been in charge when Bielik has played and when he hasn't is stark.

Without Bielik, Rooney's record is Pl 13, W 3, L 7, D 3 for 12 points

With Bielik, Rooney's record is Pl 12, W 6, L 3, D 3 for 21 points

Of course both of these is better than Cocu's record of Pl 13, W 1, L 9, D 3 for 6 points. However, my real concern is the way we have played recently. We haven't won for 5 games and 3 of those have been defeats. That's comparable with Cocu. The heady days of 3 wins 10 days against Middlesbrough, Wycombe and Huddersfield seem a very long time ago. The wins against Swansea, Bristol City and Bournemouth seem pre-historically distant.

But the simplistic argument being touted is that Rooney has done far better comparitively than Cocu because he had Bielik available.   

I'm not propagating this by the way am just referring to comments made on here over the past day or so. 

 

[Asanovic70]

There are other things to consider, the opposition faced. Bielik featured in away games against sides ranked 10, 4, 21, 23 & 13. So three lower half (two bottom six).

Ranking of last 4 sides faced away: 2, 8, 20 & 6. Three of them occupying the top 4 positions regarding form in the last 8 (soccerstats). The defeat to Coventry was indeed disappointing but the sort of game we win at home (Huddersfield). Coventry are actually ranked 11th at home & have a better current record than Cardiff.

The loss to Millwall immensely disappointing, the point at Barnsley surprising considering their high position in all the stats regarding form, 5th best home record.

 

[Chris_Martin]

6 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

There are other things to consider, the opposition faced. Bielik featured in away games against sides ranked 10, 4, 21, 23 & 13. So three lower half (two bottom six).

Ranking of last 4 sides faced away: 2, 8, 20 & 6. Three of them occupying the top 4 positions regarding form in the last 8 (soccerstats). The defeat to Coventry was indeed disappointing but the sort of game we win at home (Huddersfield). Coventry are actually ranked 11th at home & have a better current record than Cardiff.

The loss to Millwall immensely disappointing, the point at Barnsley surprising considering their high position in all the stats regarding form, 5th best home record.

 

But the fact is we have been playing poorly for probably 8-10 games now

[Asanovic70]

I agree, but it's more complicated than just saying it is all about Bielik (one point of view). What was so disappointing about the loss at Cardiff was how we capitulated. Most expected a defeat, it was the manner of it (like Middlesbrough). We're playing badly and coming up against in-form sides (bar Coventry). Not a good combination.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

18 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

It's not that it's 'only' Bielik but the difference between the Games Rooney has been in charge when Bielik has played and when he hasn't is stark.

Without Bielik, Rooney's record is Pl 13, W 3, L 7, D 3 for 12 points

With Bielik, Rooney's record is Pl 12, W 6, L 3, D 3 for 21 points

Of course both of these is better than Cocu's record of Pl 13, W 1, L 9, D 3 for 6 points. However, my real concern is the way we have played recently. We haven't won for 5 games and 3 of those have been defeats. That's comparable with Cocu. The heady days of 3 wins 10 days against Middlesbrough, Wycombe and Huddersfield seem a very long time ago. The wins against Swansea, Bristol City and Bournemouth seem pre-historically distant.

Whilst the presence or not of Bielik is indeed suggested by the data to be significant, if you're drawing comparison with Cocu then there are 2 other important differences. 

1.CKR was not fully fit under Cocu 

2. Rooney himself always played under Cocu. 

[RammingStone66]

Not sure why we all thought he would be that much different tactically to Cocu. I think his status as England's best scorer gives the impression he would have a team out to score goals and kill off games, but I'm sure I remember it being reported that he loved playing under Van Gaal and partially came to Derby to learn "the Dutch way" under Cocu.

If you look at it that way and take away his own playing achievements, then to me it makes sense that we are playing like we did under Cocu?

[IslandExile]

2 hours ago, RammingStone66 said:

Not sure why we all thought he would be that much different tactically to Cocu. I think his status as England's best scorer gives the impression he would have a team out to score goals and kill off games, but I'm sure I remember it being reported that he loved playing under Van Gaal and partially came to Derby to learn "the Dutch way" under Cocu.

If you look at it that way and take away his own playing achievements, then to me it makes sense that we are playing like we did under Cocu?

Or maybe the players are simply not capable/confident enough to play any differently.

Both Cocu and Rooney have expressed their frustration at the players for not being brave enough on the ball, for not driving forward enough or quickly enough.

[RammingStone66]

14 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Or maybe the players are simply not capable/confident enough to play any differently.

Both Cocu and Rooney have expressed their frustration at the players for not being brave enough on the ball, for not driving forward enough or quickly enough.

Very true, but who takes the blame for that. Usually that would be the manager. Either that or does there need to be a clear out and reset?

[IslandExile]

15 minutes ago, RammingStone66 said:

Very true, but who takes the blame for that. Usually that would be the manager. Either that or does there need to be a clear out and reset?

The clear out was underway under Cocu and will have to continue under Rooney.

The problems at Derby run deep; the squad was assembled over the years by different managers, playing different styles. That is the one thing that I would criticise Mel for....his inconsistency in choice of managers in terms of their philosophy and playing style. Because of that we amassed different types of player, and - under Rowett - aged players.

Now that the clear out has begun, we are left with the academy players and a bunch of loanees. So it is difficult.

[Curtains]

9 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

The clear out was underway under Cocu and will have to continue under Rooney.

The problems at Derby run deep; the squad was assembled over the years by different managers, playing different styles. That is the one thing that I would criticise Mel for....his inconsistency in choice of managers in terms of their philosophy and playing style. Because of that we amassed different types of player, and - under Rowett - aged players.

Now that the clear out has begun, we are left with the academy players and a bunch of loanees. So it is difficult.

Are we being a tad harsh. 
 

I don’t really think we are that far off .

Mel has made mistakes but I like the set up at the moment 

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Are we being a tad harsh. 
 

I don’t really think we are that far off .

Mel has made mistakes but I like the set up at the moment 

I'm a fan of Mel. I wish he could continue. I trust him far more than what I know of the prospective owners. I just meant his mistakes have been in his appointments. No one could argue that he didn't back his managers.

I was happy with the appointment of Rooney - I'm just now a little concerned about - what seems - the negative approach that he is adopting.

I think we would create more if we had more of our attacking players on the pitch at the same time. Sure good teams are built on a sound defence, learnt that from the master (BC) but even so.....

[Parsnip]

4 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Whilst the presence or not of Bielik is indeed suggested by the data to be significant, if you're drawing comparison with Cocu then there are 2 other important differences. 

God everybody's started talking so posh since @Tyler Durden's turned up with his massive words.

You do realise that when football starts up again and you're in a boozer before the game you can't start talking like this to pissed up Derby fans. They won't like it.

[Curtains]

Just now, IslandExile said:

I'm a fan of Mel. I wish he could continue. I trust him far more than what I know of the prospective owners. I just meant his mistakes have been in his appointments. No one could argue that he didn't back his managers.

I was happy with the appointment of Rooney - I'm just now a little concerned about - what seems - the negative approach that he is adopting.

I think we would create more if we had more of our attacking players on the pitch at the same time. Sure good teams are built on a sound defence, learnt that from the master (BC) but even so.....

I think it’s because of our league position.

I think he is making sure we are safe in the league to be honest. 
 

People forget we were bottom when he got the job .

Not an enviable task. 

[Duracell]

I found the Rooney love-in after not losing half a dozen games pretty insufferable, but I'm no fan of the Blame Rooney sentiment either.

The situation we are in is a combination of factors, and just as it isn't one person's fault. It's years of mismanagement on all sorts of levels which has left us with an imbalanced squad incapable of creating chances. Similarly, I don't think the situation can be fixed by one leader either.

Whether it's Cocu, Rooney or Mike Bassett at the helm, the fundamentals do not change - we do not have enough creative players, and without a takeover and some serious restructuring of our financial mess, we cannot do much to address it. 

This season is just about surviving.