F1 2021

[RadioactiveWaste]

10 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Ha ha Lewis now 2nd.  
 

It just gets better. 
 

Fantastic trolling of Christian Horner

?

[Gaspode]

9 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Pretty gutted for Seb/Aston Martin - a technical reg that's black and white and in no world something they'd have intentionally be trying to gain any advantage from, but, technical regs are absolute and if you're foul of them you're disqualified. The rule has been around for ages and everyone knows it and complies with it.

It's also true that being 0.7L short on fuel would mean the car effectivly ran underweight in the race but I don't think this has come by anything other than a miscalculation about how much fuel Seb could use in the closing laps (turning the engine mode down, little less agressive on the gas when you're trying to take a race win...)

However, that does move both King Latifi and Super George up the leader board.

You’re right that they can’t complain, but the penalty for such a minor infringement seems to be disproportionate to the crime - Bottas takes out a quarter of the field and gets a 5 place grid penalty whereas Seb is disqualified.
There’s also ought to be an acknowledgement from the FIA that the reason Seb was short on fuel was because he’d spent the whole race within a couple of seconds of Ocon chasing for first place - almost unique in modern F1 that a whole race has the two leaders so close together….none of the normal pulling away and then easing off or accepting positions….. would the authorities prefer that he’d thought about fuel levels and eased off thereby making the race less exciting?
Additionally I think they need to decide where they’re going with F1 - fans and broadcasters want close racing and excitement yet the authorities are becoming increasingly involved with penalties for minor infringements which are having a direct impact on the races - the stewards are becoming like an F1 version of VAR - constantly looking to interfere in everything rather than only dealing with the serious stuff….

[RadioactiveWaste]

6 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

You’re right that they can’t complain, but the penalty for such a minor infringement seems to be disproportionate to the crime - Bottas takes out a quarter of the field and gets a 5 place grid penalty whereas Seb is disqualified.
There’s also ought to be an acknowledgement from the FIA that the reason Seb was short on fuel was because he’d spent the whole race within a couple of seconds of Ocon chasing for first place - almost unique in modern F1 that a whole race has the two leaders so close together….none of the normal pulling away and then easing off or accepting positions….. would the authorities prefer that he’d thought about fuel levels and eased off thereby making the race less exciting?
Additionally I think they need to decide where they’re going with F1 - fans and broadcasters want close racing and excitement yet the authorities are becoming increasingly involved with penalties for minor infringements which are having a direct impact on the races - the stewards are becoming like an F1 version of VAR - constantly looking to interfere in everything rather than only dealing with the serious stuff….

It's very harsh on Seb.

But as far as I understand it the difference between technical regs and sporting regs is if you break a technical regulation you are disqualified from the session, no IFS, no buts, your car did not meet technical regs.

Sporting regs are what cover the driving, so that's up to what the steward's think the penalty should be (based on the rulebook sporting regs)

On the technical regs side I think that's always going to remain absolute (can you imagine Horner and Wolf if that was anything but the case?) But on the sporting penalties, I'd generally want racing incidents let go.

I did see Aston Martin are appealing against the decision because they thought they had 1.44L of fuel left in the car. I don't know if they succeeded. Could be it needed more time to drain back out the fuel system into the tank or perhaps just a mistake from Aston.

[Duracell]

It’s unfortunate, but not harsh. The car wasn’t legal. It’s an absolute mess if you have a sliding scale of punishment for how illegal the car is...

The FIA wouldn’t need a sample, and teams could run the tank dry, if there wasn’t such a development race when it comes to fuel. Ferrari, it seemed, were cheating with their fuel a couple of years ago and the history of the sport is littered with shenanigans from teams like Benetton and BAR, often hiding entire reservoirs somewhere in the car that the scrutineers couldn’t find. It’s one of the most important post-race checks designed to catch out rule-bending and breaking.

That being said, Aston appear confident they can prove that there was enough fuel in the car. This Grand Prix will probably finish some time in September.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Duracell

[ColonelBlimp]

Even though it was a great race in the end, delighted for Ocon and shame for Seb,  Bottas just proved what a completely average driver he is and is stealing a living with Mercedes.

Thanks to him we missed what would have been a fascinating Ham/Ver strategic race.

Thanks to him we could have had Norris on the podium again

If the positions had been reversed and Bottas had to get back to the front from last, does anyone here think he would have even made it into the points? I don't.

 

[Zag zig]

20 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

However, that does move both King Latifi and Super George up the leader board.

Just so pleased for George, it means so much to him

 

[ziggyram59]

Does anyone think it's about time George Russell was given a chance to drive for Mercedes next year? I think his proved his worth and should replace Bottas who as been a very average driver over the last 2 seasons. 

[Gaspode]

1 hour ago, ziggyram59 said:

Does anyone think it's about time George Russell was given a chance to drive for Mercedes next year? I think his proved his worth and should replace Bottas who as been a very average driver over the last 2 seasons. 

Before the race on Saturday Sky were suggesting that Toto would spend the summer break deciding the make up of the team next year - Bottas did his cause a lot of harm and Russell did the opposite. Pretty sure he'll get the seat - if (big IF!) they think that him and Lewis can work together.....also I can't see Mercedes wanting to let someone with such natural ability move to one of their rivals.....

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

2 hours ago, ziggyram59 said:

Does anyone think it's about time George Russell was given a chance to drive for Mercedes next year? I think his proved his worth and should replace Bottas who as been a very average driver over the last 2 seasons. 

I thought it was time to give Russell that seat before this season started. Bottas' performances so far this season have done nothing to change my mind.

[Gaspode]

He's already there:

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/36305/12371737/george-russell-drives-mercedes-in-hungary-as-2022-decision-awaits-mclaren-ferrari-also-tyre-testing

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 hour ago, Gaspode said:

Before the race on Saturday Sky were suggesting that Toto would spend the summer break deciding the make up of the team next year - Bottas did his cause a lot of harm and Russell did the opposite. Pretty sure he'll get the seat - if (big IF!) they think that him and Lewis can work together.....also I can't see Mercedes wanting to let someone with such natural ability move to one of their rivals.....

I think Russell would suck up a year of being flat out no2 to be in a competetive car, but I don't think he'd be happy to do any more than that. But yes, losing him could be a concern, although moves up are looking limited, McLaren have golden boy and spent a lot on bringing Danny ric in, Alpine commited to Ocon and Alonso has another year, Aston have the bosses kid and Vettel on a long term deal, Alpha tauri won't be an option for him (ditto Sauber who are the Ferarri nusury) and I think Ferrari are quite happy with goden boy of their own and capable no2 in Sainz. I think they fly in the ointment might actually be Christian Horner shaped - having tryied and binned off Gasley and Albon and Red Bull seemingly runnig out of wunderkinder, would they pull a move on russell just to wind up Toto?

[Rev]

7 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I think Russell would suck up a year of being flat out no2 to be in a competetive car, but I don't think he'd be happy to do any more than that. But yes, losing him could be a concern, although moves up are looking limited, McLaren have golden boy and spent a lot on bringing Danny ric in, Alpine commited to Ocon and Alonso has another year, Aston have the bosses kid and Vettel on a long term deal, Alpha tauri won't be an option for him (ditto Sauber who are the Ferarri nusury) and I think Ferrari are quite happy with goden boy of their own and capable no2 in Sainz. I think they fly in the ointment might actually be Christian Horner shaped - having tryied and binned off Gasley and Albon and Red Bull seemingly runnig out of wunderkinder, would they pull a move on russell just to wind up Toto?

Jos Verstappen suggesting that Valteri will swop with Lance Stroll!

It's good to see the Dutch weed is as potent as ever.

[RadioactiveWaste]

29 minutes ago, Rev said:

Jos Verstappen suggesting that Valteri will swop with Lance Stroll!

It's good to see the Dutch weed is as potent as ever.

Daddy is rich enough to buy an F1 team, I just don't think he's rich enough to buy that F1 team!

To be fair to Stroll, he has become a decent enough driver to merit a place on the grid, but I really don't see him have that special extra something to get a go in a merc, and Russell has been something of a Golden boy for the Merc young driver program, so I don't see them leaving him at Williams much longer - they'd probably have liked to get him into a midfield team this season but all the spaces got took up by other moves.

If for some strange (read £££££) reason Stroll gets the Merc seat, I could see Russell going into Aston Marting being the second part of that.

I'm sure Bottas isn't thrilled at the idea of a WIlliams, but I don't see the Aston move happening for him with Vettel there. Alpine aren't going to ditch Alonso to get Bottas in, ditto McLaren and Ferrari, AT and AR are nurseries for RBR and Ferrari so it's probably Williams or HAAS.....oh man.....a Mazespin/Bottas line up for Haas, that'd be hilarious (assuming Mick gets a better offer, probably Alfa Romeo)

[RadioactiveWaste]

Thinking about this, I think the influence tree for F1 currently looks something like this

Red Bull Racing                Mercedes                                 Ferrari                      Alpine

Alpha Tauri*             McLaren** /Aston Martin*           Alpha Romeo*

                                            Williams**                                Haas**

*technical support or other influence

**Engines only

Red Bull obviously have owned Minardi for a long time, and FIAT owning Ferrari and Alpha Romeo indicates the influence they have over the Sauber team (i get nostalgic for what F1 teams used to be).

Aston Martin (Racing point/Force India/Jordan!) have a technical support arrangment with Merc so are likely to do as they're told by Toto.

McLaren are kind of big enough to not have to do what Merc tell them, although they probably don't want to upset them too much after all their years of rubbish Honda engines and probably not wanting to have to buy Renault or ask Mr Horner very nicely an engine.

Renault/Alpine have lost influence with no one wanting their engines, but seem to have the corporate backing to swim on their own. I remember Red bull moaning about the renault engine for years (Horner, whinging, really?) so I doubt they're going to fall into the sphere of influence of one of the other big teams.

Leaving WIlliams and Haas who don't have enough clout to stand up to the top teams. I feel so sad for the WIlliams that once was.

What is going to be interesting is if Red Bull's engine program is a success, I know Honda are being "supportive" next seaosn during the hand over and after getting it wrong in the back of McLarens for so many years, they got it right in the end. So you're Haas or Williams and need an engine supplier and have to ask grinning Christian Horner for one, god knows what he's going to expect in return (I can imagine him saying "I am altering the deal, prey I do not alter it further" with zero self awareness)

[RadioactiveWaste]

Everybody is picking on Red Bull ?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/newey-politicking-against-red-bull-at-level-never-seen-before-in-f1/6644786/

[RadioactiveWaste]

So, after a seemingly endless summer holiday during which precisly nothing happened apart from Toto Wolf and Lawrence Stroll getting acused of insider trading Aston Martin shares, we're back at Spa this weekend.

However, it's also the British MotoGP this weekend at Silverstone - and the MotoGP is going to be live on ITV4. It's not seemed to be massivly advertised, but deffo worth a watch if you're even half interested in motorsports.

[Duracell]

On 25/08/2021 at 12:55, RadioactiveWaste said:

So, after a seemingly endless summer holiday during which precisly nothing happened apart from Toto Wolf and Lawrence Stroll getting acused of insider trading Aston Martin shares, we're back at Spa this weekend.

It’s a very strict holiday, this one - much stricter than the “off” season, which only really applies to the drivers in the months of December and January - is the only time F1 truly sleeps. An entire team can be fined if a single employee responds to an email! 

I think it’s the only way F1 can guarantee teams can give their employees enough annual leave and still comply with the law. Otherwise it would be a race to bend employment law to the max, as it is with every rule in F1.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Duracell

[RadioactiveWaste]

Red bull confirm Perez for next season.

Pretty sensible in my opinion, with the big regulation changes and RBR finally coming to realise a solid number 2 is worth having instead of bunging in driver after driver and binning them when they don't turn out to be the new Vettel or Verstappen. Checo isn't going to win you the WDC, but he is going to score you consistent points, be a good team guy, give you tyre strategy options and put in the development input and the benefit of experience.

That and i just kinda like Checo.

I heard that part of why he'd dropped off the last few races (ok hungary he got took out by the flying finn) was he'd started the year copying Verstappen's set up and adaptng his driving, but then started trying to make the car his own and losing performance out of it (the route that led gasley down a dead end) so he's probably going back to similar set ups to Max. Apparently the RBR car is blisteringly fast when it works, but it's a real razor edge window of performance, obviously, Max is comfortabel with it and can make it work, but Max is a bit special.

Merc still haven't officially given Bottas das boot, but surely must be coming so George can get a car he deserves.

Be interesting to see if Gasley is prepared to suck up another year in Alpha Tauri to get a red bull the year after, or if hes going to try to get a move.

 

 

[Zag zig]

In other news today

WOW George Russell 2nd on the grid with a stunning lap.

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Magnificent from Russell.

Terrible from race direction. There's driving in the wet, which I'm all for, but there are limits to what these cars can run in.

Glad Norris walked away from that.

Nice to Danny ric starting from a decent possition for a change. Same for Vettel. Predictable that having been passed over for the Red Bull drive, Gasley out qualifies Checo (you knew it would happen).

Surprised neither ferrari made Q3 but it was a bit of a difficult session.