i-Ram Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 10 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: Other ones you could have added: The totally corrupt way that the government gave out huge contracts to friends and colleagues with little or no due diligence. The bare faced lies from Cummings that the cabinet were then forced to support. Gove chuckling about it to Nick Ferrari was just grim. The government's criminal decision to send patients into care homes at the start of the pandemic. The ridiculous start to the pandemic when we locked down way too late. Johnson bragging about shaking hands with Covid patients whilst body bags were piling up in Italy. When we were still allowing people to fly in from Italy, with zero checks on arrival. The ridiculous decision to not lockdown earlier in Autumn 2020, that then lead to an inevitably longer lockdown in November and another load of deaths. Johnson's total inability to understand leading and lagging indicators. The social gatherings that were happening in Downing Street whilst the country was prevented from doing anything of the sort. The expensive debacle of track and trace and our world beating app. The only way out of lockdown apparently. Until lockdown was declared over and neither was ready until cases started rocketing again. Just a few off the top off my head. I imagine it's these sort of things that the majority of people will remember, rather than the rather fringe complaints we see regularly on here from the same handful of posters. To be fair, it must have been pretty difficult concentrating on COVID planning when the redecoration of your flat was so problematic. At least all ended well. Every cloud. Comrade 86, Boycie and ariotofmyown 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olton Ram Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 24 minutes ago, i-Ram said: To be fair, it must have been pretty difficult concentrating on COVID planning when the redecoration of your flat was so problematic. At least all ended well. Every cloud. Comrade 86, cstand and i-Ram 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 47 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: So while complaining about "misinformation" you use the usual disingenuous and misleading stuff peddled by anti vaxers and COVID deniers, which seems a touch hypocritical to me. So the official figures are misleading? Anti vaxxer and Covid denier....yawn...all very boring and often used when your argument doesn't stack up. First of all I didn't say the vaccine stops you getting the virus. I said it reduces the risk of infections, hospitalisations and deaths. The language you use "stopping you get the virus" is misleading... as if people are claiming there is some absolute protection.. there isn't and nobody has said there is. You said it reduces the risk of you catching it. Its there and black and white. Now you can go along with the official narrative which is fine, I will just continue to use the real world data which is there for all to see. The way vaccine programmes work for the flu is that people are offered a jab every year because the previous years jab has worn off and because there are new strains of the flu every year. It's the same with COVID except the strains are more deadly and more persistent. Current waves of the virus are because current vaccines are not designed for omicron, and because most people's jabs have worn off unless they have had a booster. Also because of the numbers of people who are unvaccinated. Ok fair enough, if that explanation is good enough to keep you happy, then that is your prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, PistoldPete said: So while complaining about "misinformation" you use the usual disingenuous and misleading stuff peddled by anti vaxers and COVID deniers, which seems a touch hypocritical to me. First of all I didn't say the vaccine stops you getting the virus. I said it reduces the risk of infections, hospitalisations and deaths. The language you use "stopping you get the virus" is misleading... as if people are claiming there is some absolute protection.. there isn't and nobody has said there is. Apart from virtually everyone... Edited January 7, 2022 by maxjam Mostyn6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 21 minutes ago, maxjam said: Apart from virtually everyone... So I just said vaccination reduces chances of you getting the virus and infecting others which is confirmed as a fact even according to this self styled critic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 14 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Do you not think it is possible to not think that Covid is a conspiracy theory but have some very serious questions about everything that has gone on since? I think that's perfectly possible. I'd put my life against ten quid there is no conspiracy, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't corruption and a lot of lying by people diving into the trough. As for the vaccine being released for use quickly as mentioned by @Mostyn6, a virologist was asked this very same question on 5live yesterday and he said something like: 'We had no choice. Normally we have time to do more testing, but we had tens of thousand of people dying every day and had to get it out there. There had been a LOT of research that benefited the expedited process (they weren't starting from ground zero) and the vaccine was always licensed under emergency use, but as it happens (because there are no more negative side effects statistically than any other virus) they were right to do it. ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Admins, when you next change the thread name, is there any chance you can just call it the Jamie Jenkins thread and have done with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: As for the vaccine being released for use quickly as mentioned by @Mostyn6, a virologist was asked this very same question on 5live yesterday and he said something like: 'We had no choice. Normally we have time to do more testing, but we had tens of thousand of people dying every day and had to get it out there. Wow. There’s whistle-blowing evidence that the vaccine existed before the pandemic!! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: Admins, when you next change the thread name, is there any chance you can just call it the Jamie Jenkins thread and have done with it? Good idea. He does seem to be the only one using the actual data rather than keep parroting '90% of people...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 13 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Like the Government seeing how far they can push the powers that they are taking without need. Like the media reaction and how they have been allowed to silence anyone with an alternative opinion. Like the mandating of vaccines for NHS workers even though the vaccine neither stops you from contracting or spreading the virus. Like the implementation of discriminatory vaccine passports despite the above. Like the Government being able to close businesses and destroy livelihoods. Just a few off the top of my head. I wish I'd read this before I responded to your other post because it's utter nonsense. Pretty much what @ariotofmyown said would be my take. I'll add that Johnson said over 60% of people in hospital haven't been jabbed and 91% in intensive care haven't been. When you think that over 80% of the population have been vaccinated, those stats are worrying. With omicron, I don't think (or rather hope) anybody is saying you cannot catch it after being vaccinated (if they are then they are wrong), just you're a lot less likely to get seriously sick or die. The more seriously ill you are, the longer you are off work and if you're a health worker that puts more pressure on other health workers. And dead people rarely make it into work. It would seem you were a lot less likely to catch the delta variant, but clearly omicron is more virulent and people are catching it in greater numbers. If you can point me to any scientific studies that say you're just as likely to catch omicron if you have been vaccinated as if you haven't, please do so. I was under the impression that this was still unknown. You do seem to really struggle to keep your eye on the ball and roll with new evidence and changes in the virus make-up. Preferring instead to just search for anything anybody ever said about covid and mapping it over to fit your version of reality whether it's out of date, or irrelevant. At my wife's hospital they are currently 120 hours down when it comes to ambulance drivers because of Covid. I have no ducking clue what being 120 hours down means and she hasn't answered me, but I know she is concerned with things because it's heavily impacting the entire hospital. ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 45 minutes ago, maxjam said: Apart from virtually everyone... But both statements on the second one can both be true. If you accept that "Vaccines reduce the chance of catching #Covid19 & so reduce chance of infecting others", then they do stop you infecting others. Some of them at least. Just not all of them. If you reduce the chance of infecting people, then that is stopping some of them from being infected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Wow. There’s whistle-blowing evidence that the vaccine existed before the pandemic!! ? Are you serious? You used a laughing emoji, so I'm honestly not sure? I presume you realise that Covid is a coronavirus and they have been working on them for decades, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, maxjam said: Good idea. He does seem to be the only one using the actual data rather than keep parroting '90% of people...' Most definitely. I've not read anything by scientists. I just read this thread and the people on the pro-vax side of the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 13 minutes ago, maxjam said: Good idea. He does seem to be the only one using the actual data rather than keep parroting '90% of people...' He’s quoting accurate data but in a deliberately misleading way. Why do we think more people are dying at home rather than in hospital? With no relatives around you due to COVID restrictions? He’s just selectively quoting stats to fuel the Conspiracy theorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: He’s quoting accurate data but in a deliberately misleading way. Why do we think more people are dying at home rather than in hospital? With no relatives around you due to COVID restrictions? He’s just selectively quoting stats to fuel the Conspiracy theorists. You'll have to explain why he is 'quoting accurate data but in a deliberately misleading way.' Why do you think more people are dying at home? So if accurately quoting data fuels conspiracy theorists, what does deliberately misleading the public fuel? Archied 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 24 minutes ago, Wolfie said: But both statements on the second one can both be true. If you accept that "Vaccines reduce the chance of catching #Covid19 & so reduce chance of infecting others", then they do stop you infecting others. Some of them at least. Just not all of them. If you reduce the chance of infecting people, then that is stopping some of them from being infected. Boris didn't say it 'stops us from vaccinating others*' he just said it 'stops us from infecting others'. *insert whatever caveat. If we just stick to football, in recent days Brentford (100% vaccinated) and Liverpool (99% vaccinated) have called off matches due to covid outbreaks. The vaccines don't seem to have 'stopped us from infecting others' there. Archied 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Hallelujah angieram, May Contain Nuts, ariotofmyown and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said: I think that's perfectly possible. I'd put my life against ten quid there is no conspiracy, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't corruption and a lot of lying by people diving into the trough. As for the vaccine being released for use quickly as mentioned by @Mostyn6, a virologist was asked this very same question on 5live yesterday and he said something like: 'We had no choice. Normally we have time to do more testing, but we had tens of thousand of people dying every day and had to get it out there. There had been a LOT of research that benefited the expedited process (they weren't starting from ground zero) and the vaccine was always licensed under emergency use, but as it happens (because there are no more negative side effects statistically than any other virus) they were right to do it. Yep you see there’s the middle ground for me ,, but then it falls apart on mass vaccinating the whole population who are at very little risk from covid , children included , then mass boosters with mixed vaccines and pick from the air gaps between jabs , get it out on emergency basis to try to save lives of the vulnerable I can go with and fully see the logic?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 21 minutes ago, maxjam said: You'll have to explain why he is 'quoting accurate data but in a deliberately misleading way.' Why do you think more people are dying at home? So if accurately quoting data fuels conspiracy theorists, what does deliberately misleading the public fuel? I’ve just given you the reason why more people are dying at home rather than in hospital. and quoting accurate data but out of context as Jenkins id doing is a well used tactic. yes so 93.5 % of deaths are not from COVID. So? He is showing he can deduct a number from 100% . So what? yes so more people are dying at home than before the pandemic( for reasons I have explained) but why quote these two unrelated facts together? If not to project an agenda that is entirely spurious? Or pander to the conspiracy theorists and feed more clickbait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Archied said: Yep you see there’s the middle ground for me ,, but then it falls apart on mass vaccinating the whole population who are at very little risk from covid , children included , then mass boosters with mixed vaccines and pick from the air gaps between jabs , get it out on emergency basis to try to save lives of the vulnerable I can go with and fully see the logic?♂️ And who are the vulnerable in your view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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