The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Norman]

6 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Can anyone explain to me why the people who disagree with the vaccine seem to be largely the people desperately promoting other medical intervention? Aren't they both open to the same criticisms? 

Big pharma making profits - tick
Lack of testing - tick (that worm medicine has been used externally but not internally I believe)
5G/other silver foil hat moments - all open to the same criticisms surely?

 

 

You quoted me yesterday about the BBC and confirmation bias, whilst coming up with your own OPINION which I was going to highlight how you would have twisted it into a conspiracy theory. I just couldn't be arsed to show the lack of self-awareness. If someone doesn't agree with your opinion, it doesn't mean it's a conspiracy.

If your post is aimed @maxjam, which I'm assuming it is as he posts other medicines on trial, then you don't read his posts.

You still try to link it to conspiracy theories, though. 

Must be a conspiracy theory that you don't want other medicines available so the government you despise can carry on telling you what to do? 

See how easy this is?  And how it doesn't help a discussion at all. 

It does try and discredit the poster and make them feel like they can't post their OPINION, though.

Maybe we should change 'imo' to 'imct'.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Norman

[sage]

41 minutes ago, Norman said:

 

You quoted me yesterday about the BBC and confirmation bias, whilst coming up with your own OPINION which I was going to highlight how you would have twisted it into a conspiracy theory. I just couldn't be arsed to show the lack of self-awareness. If someone doesn't agree with your opinion, it doesn't mean it's a conspiracy.

If your post is aimed @maxjam, which I'm assuming it is as he posts other medicines on trial, then you don't read his posts.

You still try to link it to conspiracy theories, though. 

Must be a conspiracy theory that you don't want other medicines available so the government you despise can carry on telling you what to do? 

See how easy this is?  And how it doesn't help a discussion at all. 

It does try and discredit the poster and make them feel like they can't post their OPINION, though.

Maybe we should change 'imo' to 'imct'.

Just to be clear, is this a conspiracy theory? 

[1of4]

2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Simply and honestly because I don’t want to (this may be seen as selfish, but I see being forced to is also) I haven’t had to wear one for the other years I’ve been on Earth (apart from in the workplace). I’ve had the jabs, that’s enough for me. If others want to wear them, social distance, live alone inside forever etc, then I’m ok with that and would never tell anybody to do anything they didn’t want too, but I expect the same back. 
 

On to your last point, then what’s the point in the vaccine? Same question I posed to @Eddie Do you think we should carry on like this forever? 

The point of the vaccine is as you have said yourself, it give you a level of protection that gives you a better chance of not dying or becoming seriously ill if you catch covid. Unfortunately some people even after being vaccinated can still become seriously ill if they get the virus.

As for masks. Hopefully with the work being carried out by the world's scientists, we will beat this virus, so we won't be having to wear a mask for ever.  But until that day arrives, then wearing of masks still needs to be followed in areas like shops, were the ventilation is poor and the footfall high.

I don't want or like the mandatory wearing of masks. I'd like to think that people will use common sense in deciding when they should wear a mask. But unfortunately we have a large number of people lacking any sense and more sadly any empathy for their fellow citizens.

[Archied]

5 hours ago, 1of4 said:

The point of the vaccine is as you have said yourself, it give you a level of protection that gives you a better chance of not dying or becoming seriously ill if you catch covid. Unfortunately some people even after being vaccinated can still become seriously ill if they get the virus.

As for masks. Hopefully with the work being carried out by the world's scientists, we will beat this virus, so we won't be having to wear a mask for ever.  But until that day arrives, then wearing of masks still needs to be followed in areas like shops, were the ventilation is poor and the footfall high.

I don't want or like the mandatory wearing of masks. I'd like to think that people will use common sense in deciding when they should wear a mask. But unfortunately we have a large number of people lacking any sense and more sadly any empathy for their fellow citizens.

You don’t want or like the mandatory wearing of masks ,, UNLESS people with not as much sense as YOU chose not to wear them or less empathy than YOU choose not to wear them ??‍♂️Can you actually see what your saying and let’s have it right here it’s not masks it’s FACE COVERINGS, cloth , paper ,plastic ,in fact anything from the wife’s tights to a pair of your pants will suffice,

it reduces transmission by 53% I’m told on here but real world figures show countries that kept face mask mandates along with more regulations have not only not done better case wise but actually done worse than England, face coverings do bugger all ,real world numbers clearly show that ??‍♂️
the selfish ones are the people who cling to the safety blanket in the face of undeniable and want to force them on those who will not take part in this stupid theatre ? 

the same trick is being pulled on every aspect , vaccines can’t just be allowed to be for the individual s protection they have to be for the protection of others even when real world evidence starts to kick in showing that being double, triple or however many times jabbed doesn’t stop catching and spreading covid yet vaccine passports and the victimisation of non vaccinated speeds ahead ??‍♂️

ffs wake up people 

[Archied]

15 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Can anyone explain to me why the people who disagree with the vaccine seem to be largely the people desperately promoting other medical intervention? Aren't they both open to the same criticisms? 

Big pharma making profits - tick
Lack of testing - tick (that worm medicine has been used externally but not internally I believe)
5G/other silver foil hat moments - all open to the same criticisms surely?

 

Who / where are these people you speak of ? I’ve not seen them ??‍♂️
can we also drag you back to the realms of balance on peoples view on big pharma too , personally and in most sensible people I believe they don’t see big pharma as ALL bad , of course new medicine s are great and needed and big pharma do a lot of good stuff too ,,BUT big pharma needs very stringent checks and balances because history has shown profit can take over and become the be all and end all if not regulated ,

on this new medicine I’ve not commented as I don’t know enough about it and just like the vaccine it’s new , if I was suffering from a bad case of covid and there was a new medicine that appeared to work my risk assessment would be very different in terms of taking it ,of course it would , that’s very different for people who are at tiny risk from covid being mass vaccinated every 12 weeks children included ,

as for mutation s , do we really feel that a vaccine that doesn’t stop the spread of covid is any less likely to produce/ encourage mutations than spread in unvaccinated? My guess is of course the virus will want to mutate to get around the vaccine , that’s not saying vaccine is bad don’t take it ,it’s saying let’s be honest about things,

you really need to get out of the habit of putting people on either one end of the extreme or the other when they actually aren’t 

[Gone]

7 hours ago, 1of4 said:

But unfortunately we have a large number of people lacking any sense and more sadly any empathy for their fellow citizens.

Are they the same people who followed the rules since Jan/feb 2020, to then follow them even further and also risk having a vaccine the hasn’t passed using channels for approval. These the same people who didn’t see loved ones for months, who gave up celebrating Christmas with their family’s ,gave up an education and couldn’t celebrate  leaving school or graduating from uni. Those people who couldn’t celebrate 18th birthdays, 21st birthday, weddings and births with Families and friends. Those same people not being able to say goodbye to loved ones at their funerals. You mean these people who weren’t really effected and still aren’t by a virus with such a small threat to them but did all this to protect the vulnerable, those people which this mass hysterical scaremongering virus is now an even less threat as they have been vaccinated. You mean those people who lack any sense and empathy right? 

[Archied]

26 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Are they the same people who followed the rules since Jan/feb 2020, to then follow them even further and also risk having a vaccine the hasn’t passed using channels for approval. These the same people who didn’t see loved ones for months, who gave up celebrating Christmas with their family’s ,gave up an education and couldn’t celebrate  leaving school or graduating from uni. Those people who couldn’t celebrate 18th birthdays, 21st birthday, weddings and births with Families and friends. Those same people not being able to say goodbye to loved ones at their funerals. You mean these people who weren’t really effected and still aren’t by a virus with such a small threat to them but did all this to protect the vulnerable, those people which this mass hysterical scaremongering virus is now an even less threat as they have been vaccinated. You mean those people who lack any sense and empathy right? 

You forgot the yesterday s heroes who went from being clapped to sacked in double quick time , those selfish villain s

[G STAR RAM]

39 minutes ago, Archied said:

Who / where are these people you speak of ? I’ve not seen them ??‍♂️
can we also drag you back to the realms of balance on peoples view on big pharma too , personally and in most sensible people I believe they don’t see big pharma as ALL bad , of course new medicine s are great and needed and big pharma do a lot of good stuff too ,,BUT big pharma needs very stringent checks and balances because history has shown profit can take over and become the be all and end all if not regulated ,

on this new medicine I’ve not commented as I don’t know enough about it and just like the vaccine it’s new , if I was suffering from a bad case of covid and there was a new medicine that appeared to work my risk assessment would be very different in terms of taking it ,of course it would , that’s very different for people who are at tiny risk from covid being mass vaccinated every 12 weeks children included ,

as for mutation s , do we really feel that a vaccine that doesn’t stop the spread of covid is any less likely to produce/ encourage mutations than spread in unvaccinated? My guess is of course the virus will want to mutate to get around the vaccine , that’s not saying vaccine is bad don’t take it ,it’s saying let’s be honest about things,

you really need to get out of the habit of putting people on either one end of the extreme or the other when they actually aren’t 

Anti vaxxer

[G STAR RAM]

31 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Are they the same people who followed the rules since Jan/feb 2020, to then follow them even further and also risk having a vaccine the hasn’t passed using channels for approval. These the same people who didn’t see loved ones for months, who gave up celebrating Christmas with their family’s ,gave up an education and couldn’t celebrate  leaving school or graduating from uni. Those people who couldn’t celebrate 18th birthdays, 21st birthday, weddings and births with Families and friends. Those same people not being able to say goodbye to loved ones at their funerals. You mean these people who weren’t really effected and still aren’t by a virus with such a small threat to them but did all this to protect the vulnerable, those people which this mass hysterical scaremongering virus is now an even less threat as they have been vaccinated. You mean those people who lack any sense and empathy right? 

Also forgot to add that this was all being done whilst some of the people on our tv screens, telling us how dangerous the virus is and we must follow the rules, were carrying on their lives as normal.

[Archied]

30 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

So is this what you're saying:

• Real world experience is more valuable than real world experience coupled with education/learning 
• The chin and nose are equally important in expression as the eyes
• 50% is virtually 100%
• A book based in decades of research and written by the world leading expert on facial expressions and facial communication is *haughty* and worth dismissing when compared to your real world experience.

Difficult to argue with any of that.

Speaking of haughty books, you really should check out research conducted by Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman.

Kahneman won a Nobel Prize for his work on heuristics and cognitive biases with Tversky (he died of cancer and they don't award Nobel prizes posthumously otherwise he'd have got one too) and it will help you understand why you think your real world experience is more valuable than my real world experience.

When you understand heuristics and cognitive biases you can not only spot other people's, but your own.

I doubt you read books though.

And there we go with the insults ,why is that the always go to of some , it’s just ignorance ,the opposite of education 

the face is whole ,,whole face , the elements work together as a whole , you started who’s real life experience my dads bigger than yours stuff , telling me I was so out of my depth that I needed flippers and a snorkel, because you’ve read a book?,

real life plus education is great until you get those arrogant foolish people who lose touch with real life because they consider themselves superior 

really sad to see education wasted ??‍♂️

Edited December 3, 2021 by Archied

[Gone]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

Are they the same people who followed the rules since Jan/feb 2020, to then follow them even further and also risk having a vaccine the hasn’t passed using channels for approval. These the same people who didn’t see loved ones for months, who gave up celebrating Christmas with their family’s ,gave up an education and couldn’t celebrate  leaving school or graduating from uni. Those people who couldn’t celebrate 18th birthdays, 21st birthday, weddings and births with Families and friends. Those same people not being able to say goodbye to loved ones at their funerals. You mean these people who weren’t really effected and still aren’t by a virus with such a small threat to them but did all this to protect the vulnerable, those people which this mass hysterical scaremongering virus is now an even less threat as they have been vaccinated. You mean those people who lack any sense and empathy right? 

@1of4 not them people them, is it the other ones? 

[Bob The Badger]

47 minutes ago, Archied said:

And there we go with the insults ,why is that the always go to of some , it’s just ignorance ,the opposite of education 

the face is whole ,,whole face , the elements work together as a whole , you started who’s real life experience my dads bigger than yours stuff , telling me I was so out of my depth that I needed flippers and a snorkel, because you’ve read a book?,

real life plus education is great until you get those arrogant foolish people who lose touch with real life because they consider themselves superior 

really sad to see education wasted ??‍♂️

The majority of the population don't read books on a regular basis.

And when it comes to non-fiction you're probably into single digits percentage-wise.

The fact that you dismissed a book you've never read as being haughty and said that you preferred real world experience suggests you're probably one of the majority.

I don't consider myself superior to anybody Archie. I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

I do consider that I'm better informed than some people in some areas though.

Just like I'm more poorly informed than many people in many areas.

The areas I'm poorly informed in outnumber the ones I know what I'm talking about by a factor of several hundred I would imagine.

I *think* you're a builder or roofer or something like that. Well, you're communicating now with the most incompetent DIY person you have probably ever known. 

I'd not debate you on anything to do with manual stuff like that because you'd probably wipe the floor with me. Which is why when you were talking about insulate Britain being ridiculous because it wasn't the issue that they were making out to be,  I didn't comment because I suspect you know a lot more about that than I do.

In circumstances like that real world experience probably does trump book learning. 

But, when you make statements that I know to be objectively false and you clearly don't understand the topic at hand when it is something I have studied and even had training in, then yeh,  I will say something and probably get sarcastic when you double down. 

I'm sorry I made you sad though.

 

[Bob The Badger]

Interestingly @Archied if we'd never had any interaction and we met in a pub with @TexasRam, I'm pretty we'd have a lot more in common politically speaking than you and he would, or me and him for that matter.

Same goes for you and @G STAR RAM

Just a hunch of course, I'm still waiting to get to my copy of G Star Ram - An Autobiography. 

 

[Archied]

8 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

The majority of the population don't read books on a regular basis.

And when it comes to non-fiction you're probably into single digits percentage-wise.

The fact that you dismissed a book you've never read as being haughty and said that you preferred real world experience suggests you're probably one of the majority.

I don't consider myself superior to anybody Archie. I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

I do consider that I'm better informed than some people in some areas though.

Just like I'm more poorly informed than many people in many areas.

The areas I'm poorly informed in outnumber the ones I know what I'm talking about by a factor of several hundred I would imagine.

I *think* you're a builder or roofer or something like that. Well, you're communicating now with the most incompetent DIY person you have probably ever known. 

I'd not debate you on anything to do with manual stuff like that because you'd probably wipe the floor with me. Which is why when you were talking about insulate Britain being ridiculous because it wasn't the issue that they were making out to be,  I didn't comment because I suspect you know a lot more about that than I do.

In circumstances like that real world experience probably does trump book learning. 

But, when you make statements that I know to be objectively false and you clearly don't understand the topic at hand when it is something I have studied and even had training in, then yeh,  I will say something and probably get sarcastic when you double down. 

I'm sorry I made you sad though.

 

Very strange really but when I was a kid you couldn’t drag me near a book , around the age of about 25 I suddenly became an avid reader , I will read 5 or 6 books on a holiday, can’t really get on with fiction , love history, when I trained and worked as an addictions counsellor I got very much into how our minds work across the spectrum, 

I actually phrased the haughty book bit wrongly in my post ( I’m sure you know how it’s meant to come across)

just because I was / am far better read in an area does not trump others real life experience but hey ho maybe we view things differently ??‍♂️

[Archied]

14 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Interestingly @Archied if we'd never had any interaction and we met in a pub with @TexasRam, I'm pretty we'd have a lot more in common politically speaking than you and he would, or me and him for that matter.

Same goes for you and @G STAR RAM

Just a hunch of course, I'm still waiting to get to my copy of G Star Ram - An Autobiography. 

 

Yep just like in this covid topic it’s not about where we want to be that we disagree on it’s the way we get there 

[Gone]

21 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Interestingly @Archied if we'd never had any interaction and we met in a pub with @TexasRam, I'm pretty we'd have a lot more in common politically speaking than you and he would, or me and him for that matter.

Same goes for you and @G STAR RAM

Just a hunch of course, I'm still waiting to get to my copy of G Star Ram - An Autobiography. 

 

How do you know I’m a him? Or for that matter my Political sway? I think you’d be surprised (not by the 1st bit ?). Let’s do it ? 

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

So is this what you're saying:

• Real world experience is more valuable than real world experience coupled with education/learning 
• The chin and nose are equally important in expression as the eyes
• 50% is virtually 100%
• A book based in decades of research and written by the world leading expert on facial expressions and facial communication is *haughty* and worth dismissing when compared to your real world experience.

Difficult to argue with any of that.

Speaking of haughty books, you really should check out research conducted by Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman.

Kahneman won a Nobel Prize for his work on heuristics and cognitive biases with Tversky (he died of cancer and they don't award Nobel prizes posthumously otherwise he'd have got one too) and it will help you understand why you think your real world experience is more valuable than my real world experience.

When you understand heuristics and cognitive biases you can not only spot other people's, but your own.

I doubt you read books though.

In summary (there's half a dozen on here echoing this sentiment):

"My ignorance is just as valid as your knowledge".

I've gone back to putting the ignorant on 'ignore'.

[Archied]

3 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

So is this what you're saying:

• Real world experience is more valuable than real world experience coupled with education/learning 
• The chin and nose are equally important in expression as the eyes
• 50% is virtually 100%
• A book based in decades of research and written by the world leading expert on facial expressions and facial communication is *haughty* and worth dismissing when compared to your real world experience.

Difficult to argue with any of that.

Speaking of haughty books, you really should check out research conducted by Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman.

Kahneman won a Nobel Prize for his work on heuristics and cognitive biases with Tversky (he died of cancer and they don't award Nobel prizes posthumously otherwise he'd have got one too) and it will help you understand why you think your real world experience is more valuable than my real world experience.

When you understand heuristics and cognitive biases you can not only spot other people's, but your own.

I doubt you read books though.

Just to clear things up , you are saying everyone wearing face coverings from chin to below eyes has no detrimental effect on how we communicate and view each other,  both physically and psychologically?

[Ram-Alf]

Had my Booster this Morning, 3 times at 3 stations I had to give the same information, Had a giggle with them about it, I was told that once I had had the injection I was to go and sit in the seating area, I politley declined their off on the grounds I don't like to be kept in a place I feel I don't want to be, The Gentleman said it was for my benefit, I thanked him for his sincerity but I will decline your offer, He then said He would have to put it down on my record incase I collapse outside, I said go ahead, Injection done and I asked if i get a certificate/card to say I have had the booster...no was the response but if you have your card that was given you for your 2 injections I will write on what injection it was Pfizer for the Booster...Astra Zenica for the other 2, Coming out of the booth I was directed to the seating area, Again I politely declined, The Lady was rather confused as she pointed to the people who had already taken up the offer.

All were sitting there in a line masked up looking at me and thinking...I wished I was him.

[GboroRam]

4 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Had my Booster this Morning, 3 times at 3 stations I had to give the same information, Had a giggle with them about it, I was told that once I had had the injection I was to go and sit in the seating area, I politley declined their off on the grounds I don't like to be kept in a place I feel I don't want to be, The Gentleman said it was for my benefit, I thanked him for his sincerity but I will decline your offer, He then said He would have to put it down on my record incase I collapse outside, I said go ahead, Injection done and I asked if i get a certificate/card to say I have had the booster...no was the response but if you have your card that was given you for your 2 injections I will write on what injection it was Pfizer for the Booster...Astra Zenica for the other 2, Coming out of the booth I was directed to the seating area, Again I politely declined, The Lady was rather confused as she pointed to the people who had already taken up the offer.

All were sitting there in a line masked up looking at me and thinking...I wished I was him.

...unless you suffer an anaphylactic shock, collapse and need critical urgent medical attention. It's genuinely a 15 minute wait to make sure you don't have an allergic reaction. Nothing more sinister than that. Of the 70* or so people who've died from the injection, a high proportion were from anaphylaxis. An epi-pen will pretty much guarantee you won't die from a reaction, which they're ready with just in case.

The 3rd jab shows up on your digital record - you don't need a card or anything. Well, it's on mine at least.

Edited December 3, 2021 by GboroRam
*Source: pulled out of my anal cavity. I'm sure someone will query it for accuracy. It's not accurate, it's a guess