The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[therealhantsram]

14 minutes ago, Archied said:

So when 98% of people survive covid why do people believe they will be the 2% to the extent they are prepared to give up living a proper normal life??‍♂️

Compassion and empathy.

[maxjam]

Did this get any coverage in the media this weekend?  I don't think I saw any.  Its not like the reporters weren't out in London reporting on the XR demonstrations every. single. day... 

Instead of marching peacefully through the streets they should have glued themselves to a bus or two.

 

[Archied]

3 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

But can't this be applied to just about anything in life?

Iphone have brought out a new phone. How do we know they won't blow up in 10 years time? How do we know that the new cars they manufacture every year are safe? How do we know the food at the new restaurant down the road won't kill us in a few years? How do we know that the new boeing 777X won't fall out of the sky in a few years?

People are happy to take risks on nothing they know about all the time... But they won't take the vaccine on potential future risk? That doesn't make sense at all.

 

Jeez ,, on that basis what’s your problem with anyone saying on balance they are happy to risk covid ,,,

have I misse something news wise today as there’s a mass pro vaccine push on here tonight , why can’t people just leave people to make they’re own choice, is it like that alcohol thing ?, when I stopped drinking it was a nightmare with people who drink too much wanting to push drink on me , somehow made them feel better if everybody else drank too much 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, therealhantsram said:

I dare say many of the 20 something's who are worried because the don't know what's in it are quite happy to take a tab of ecstasy in a Saturday night, or speed, or whatever. And the criminals behind it could put literally anything in those, without any testing or accountability.

Perhaps they feel they are getting something from a tab ??‍♂️

[Archied]

22 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Compassion and empathy.

Erm no , that’s a swerve and a virtue signaling loaded one at that , having compassion and empathy for anyone in the 2% that lose they’re lives to covid is nothing to do with being overwhelmed by fear your going to catch it and die , be interested to know the figures for drug and alcohol related deaths ( including those killed or maimed as a result of others drinking and drugs ) compared to covid deaths in U.K. ??‍♂️, don’t see too many clamouring to force people to stop drinking but happy to force people to have a vaccine, wear masks , lose jobs ect ect ect 

[Bris Vegas]

22 minutes ago, Archied said:

Jeez ,, on that basis what’s your problem with anyone saying on balance they are happy to risk covid ,,,

have I misse something news wise today as there’s a mass pro vaccine push on here tonight , why can’t people just leave people to make they’re own choice, is it like that alcohol thing ?, when I stopped drinking it was a nightmare with people who drink too much wanting to push drink on me , somehow made them feel better if everybody else drank too much 

I've never said people should take the vaccine. I'm merely questioning why uneducated people (I mean scientifically) wouldn't take it... I mentioned earlier I have cousins who just won't take the vaccine.

When I asked why, they sent me a bunch of links to doctors saying it's bad for you.

But for every doctor who says it's bad for you, there are thousands who who refute that and say it's in your best interests (health wise) to take the vaccine.

So all I'm asking is why anti-vaxxers are choosing to believe the minority over the majority? Why?

I've explained why I've chosen to take the vaccine. I simply believe in the majority of experts who say I should.

But for all of those who aren't medics or knowledgable. Why are you choosing to believe the minority?

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

And I already replied that they aren't giving the AstraZeneca vaccines to the under 40s - or those most at risk from any potential unforseen long term complications ? 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

- if you're under 18, you'll only be offered the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine

Here in Mexico we are primarily only receiving AstraZeneca vaccines. Since the rollout in my state from March onwards (over 30s are now double-jabbed for those who want it) it's only been the AZ vaccine.

[maxjam]

3 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I've never said people should take the vaccine. I'm merely questioning why uneducated people (I mean scientifically) wouldn't take it... I mentioned earlier I have cousins who just won't take the vaccine.

FWIW, in America at least those with PhDs are the most reluctant to get vaccinated ?‍♂️

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9893465/Americans-PhDs-reluctant-vaccinated-against-COVID-study-finds.html

https://www.upmc.com/media/news/072621-king-mejia-vaccine-hesitancy

In some respects the findings are as predicted — for example the paper finds that there is a strong correlation between counties with higher Trump support in the 2020 presidential election and higher hesitancy in the period January 2021 — May 2021. 

But more surprising is the breakdown in vaccine hesitancy by level of education. It finds that the association between hesitancy and education level follows a U-shaped curve with the highest hesitancy among those least and most educated. People with a master’s degree had the least hesitancy, and the highest hesitancy was among those holding a Ph.D. 

What’s more, the paper found that in the first five months of 2021, the largest decrease in hesitancy was among the least educated — those with a high school education or less. Meanwhile, hesitancy held constant in the most educated group; by May, those with Ph.Ds were the most hesitant group. 

So not only are the most educated people most sceptical of taking the Covid vaccine, they are also the least likely the change their minds about it… 

[ariotofmyown]

51 minutes ago, Archied said:

So when 98% of people survive covid why do people believe they will be the 2% to the extent they are prepared to give up living a proper normal life??‍♂️

This post almost makes no sense.

If true, a 2% chance of dying from something is huge, especially when cases get high. 

But this 2% is clearly a pre-vaccine figure, as death numbers are now very low from a huge base of cases.

People aren't giving up living a proper normal life. They are mostly taking the vaccine, which massively reduces their chance of dying from Covid, with negligible risk of bad side effects from the vaccine. Then they are living a pretty normal life again.

But you, and others on here, were pretty anti-lockdowns and are now pretty wary of vaccines...against the tool that enabled us to safely escape lockdowns.

I think I've spoken to 2 people who have said they would not get vaccinated and everybody else has/will. Call it 98% vs 2%.

Most of you vaccine wary people on here have also taken it, but then also criticise Australia for their botched vaccine rollout.

Nice to see you take up the common sense baton @Bris Vegas. Good luck!

[Bris Vegas]

3 minutes ago, maxjam said:

FWIW, in America at least those with PhDs are the most reluctant to get vaccinated ?‍♂️

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9893465/Americans-PhDs-reluctant-vaccinated-against-COVID-study-finds.html

https://www.upmc.com/media/news/072621-king-mejia-vaccine-hesitancy

In some respects the findings are as predicted — for example the paper finds that there is a strong correlation between counties with higher Trump support in the 2020 presidential election and higher hesitancy in the period January 2021 — May 2021. 

But more surprising is the breakdown in vaccine hesitancy by level of education. It finds that the association between hesitancy and education level follows a U-shaped curve with the highest hesitancy among those least and most educated. People with a master’s degree had the least hesitancy, and the highest hesitancy was among those holding a Ph.D. 

What’s more, the paper found that in the first five months of 2021, the largest decrease in hesitancy was among the least educated — those with a high school education or less. Meanwhile, hesitancy held constant in the most educated group; by May, those with Ph.Ds were the most hesitant group. 

So not only are the most educated people most sceptical of taking the Covid vaccine, they are also the least likely the change their minds about it… 

I'm not really sure what to get from that data. 23.9% of those with a PHD were hesitant (still a minority of those with a PHD), but next on the list were the supposed least educated (high school or less) with a 20.8% hesitancy. Those with Bachelor's, Masters and EG JD were less than 15% each.

So in each education group, over 75% weren't hesitant to get the vaccine.

It also doesn't say if they have a PHD in medical/scientific fields. They could have a PHD in social work or business administration which would be completely irrelevant.

I'm not trying to push anyone to get the vaccine. I apologise if it comes across that way.

I'm just most interested in the why people don't want it. I read FB (I know, stupid idea) and all I seem to see as a reaction is 'do your own research' followed by links to doctors who hold a minority view.

I'm just curious why people believe the minority view. There doesn't seem to be an answer. Maybe it is political as you mentioned before. Or maybe we are just wired differently.

I had an uncle who wouldn't drink water out the tap. He thought the government was spiking the water. I mean, how do you come to that conclusion? Why would you ever think that way?

 

[Archied]

6 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I've never said people should take the vaccine. I'm merely questioning why uneducated people (I mean scientifically) wouldn't take it... I mentioned earlier I have cousins who just won't take the vaccine.

When I asked why, they sent me a bunch of links to doctors saying it's bad for you.

But for every doctor who says it's bad for you, there are thousands who who refute that and say it's in your best interests (health wise) to take the vaccine.

So all I'm asking is why anti-vaxxers are choosing to believe the minority over the majority? Why?

I've explained why I've chosen to take the vaccine. I simply believe in the majority of experts who say I should.

But for all of those who aren't medics or knowledgable. Why are you choosing to believe the minority?

Ok , first off you have just like the government and media labelled people who are hesitant about these new vaccines which by necessity have been by comparison developed , approved and administered to the whole population ( including now it seems children who clearly don’t need it) at a speed never before seen which by nature can’t have long term data as anti vaxers which is a general term with a certain connotation ,this is counterproductive and sows feelings of offence and mistrust in many 

it is most certainly in very large part a trust issue, the majority of people have taken the vaccine with the majority of them being uneducated scientifically, rightly or wrongly they choose to trust mainstream media which has only really allowed official line on covid policies and vaccines and openly and actively censored any differing opinions no matter how scientifically educated and qualified people who have a different view are and there is the crux , trust or mistrust, the government have made some cluster duck decisions during this whole scenario, reeled around like a drunken sailor and practised very different actions to what they preach , of course you will have mistrust and people will be forced to seek out opinions/ views that are censored rather than openly debated , this pushes them into an area that is also filled with the more extreme and crazy eliment surrounding covid ??‍♂️

[Bob The Badger]

13 hours ago, maxjam said:

If the covid vaccines were traditional vaccines I don't think I would hesitant in vaccinating my children.

The MRNA vaccines however are new technology.  Given the risks from covid under 18s face, there is very little benefit from jabbing them now - waiting 5-10 years imho would be prudent.

Go and do some actual research, from actual science sites and you will see they have been working on this for longer than. the 5-10 years you think is prudent.

This actual vaccine and the method of delivery is new, the technology, or rather knowledge around RNA, isn't.

[G STAR RAM]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58380867

[Bob The Badger]

13 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I just think its bad trying to force it on people, especially the younger generation.

Is anybody trying to do that?

Telling people you cannot come into my pub, club or venue unless you're vaccinated is not forcing you to get vaccinated any more than saying you cannot drive that car without wearing is seat belt is forcing you to walk around in a seat belt.

Or, telling you you cannot be a nurse without having a hepatitis jab is saying you cannot work without one.

[Bob The Badger]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58380867

O.M.G. (part 1)

Look at that left wing BBC stirring up the anti-vaxxers again!!!

Disgusting!!!

O.M.G. (part 2)

I cannot believe that some people out of hundreds of millions of doses have actually died.

Next they'll be saying somebody once died after taking aspirin, or (guffaw, guffaw) eating a peanut.

The worlds gone mad.

Mad I yell ya!

[maxjam]

8 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I'm not really sure what to get from that data. 23.9% of those with a PHD were hesitant (still a minority of those with a PHD), but next on the list were the supposed least educated (high school or less) with a 20.8% hesitancy. Those with Bachelor's, Masters and EG JD were less than 15% each.

So in each education group, over 75% weren't hesitant to get the vaccine.

The data shows that it is incorrect to think that is just the poorly educated that are.  The research also states that vaccine hesitancy has been falling amongst the least educated - yet remained firm amongst those in the most educated group.  I dunno why that is, regardless of what they have their PhDs in you would imagine that they were able to separate the wheat from the chaff and be quite skilled in doing their own research ?

 

8 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I'm just most interested in the why people don't want it. I read FB (I know, stupid idea) and all I seem to see as a reaction is 'do your own research' followed by links to doctors who hold a minority view.

I'm just curious why people believe the minority view. There doesn't seem to be an answer. Maybe it is political as you mentioned before. Or maybe we are just wired differently.

I dunno other than age related, I personally think if you're over 50 its pretty much a no brainer.  If you're under than, certainly a long way shy of 50 then any potential long term effects might start to weigh heavy on your mind.

I recall some stats a while back in th UK that showed the higher age brackets had a 90%+ vaccine uptake and that figure started to wane as you went through the younger age groups.  I haven't seen any figures recently but would imagine its broadly the same. 

You will always get the fringe 'Bill Gates is tracking me' tin foil hat element but I personally think (without knowing for sure) that the vast majority of people that decline the vaccine are in the younger, I'm fit and healthy age groups - and tbh the vast majority of them will be okay.  If you play the odds you are overwhelmingly likely to be okay.  There are however the ones that are not and nobody ever thinks its going to be them...

[maxjam]

14 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Go and do some actual research, from actual science sites and you will see they have been working on this for longer than. the 5-10 years you think is prudent.

This actual vaccine and the method of delivery is new, the technology, or rather knowledge around RNA, isn't.

I've done more than my share of research thanks ?

Given how new these vaccines are and lack of real world data, I personally believe that the younger you are the more thought you should put into getting jabbed or not.  I would never tell anyone what to do, amongst other things it depends on your health, circumstance and responsibilities - talk to your Doctor if you're unsure.  

Having said that we now have approaching 2 years of data.  We now know the vast majority of people will recover, certainly in the younger age groups and if you're willing to play the odds know that whilst most people will recover a small percentage will die or be left with long covid.  If you are under 18 however - the only group I would not vaccinate - the risk factor is virtually 0.0%

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Is anybody trying to do that?

Telling people you cannot come into my pub, club or venue unless you're vaccinated is not forcing you to get vaccinated any more than saying you cannot drive that car without wearing is seat belt is forcing you to walk around in a seat belt.

Or, telling you you cannot be a nurse without having a hepatitis jab is saying you cannot work without one.

Well yes, telling you that you will be unable to live a normal life unless you have the vaccine is literally trying to force it on you.

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

O.M.G. (part 1)

Look at that left wing BBC stirring up the anti-vaxxers again!!!

Disgusting!!!

O.M.G. (part 2)

I cannot believe that some people out of hundreds of millions of doses have actually died.

Next they'll be saying somebody once died after taking aspirin, or (guffaw, guffaw) eating a peanut.

The worlds gone mad.

Mad I yell ya!

Not really much difference to posts about the 1 or 2 under 50 anti vaxxers that have died is there? I'll go back and see if you had the same reaction to them posts...

[therealhantsram]

10 hours ago, Archied said:

Perhaps they feel they are getting something from a tab ??‍♂️

Yes that's exactly it.

There's lots of research to show that us humans are notoriously bad at weighing up risks Vs rewards.