The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Archied]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Happy ain't the right word, but I think most people are relaxed about taking a cautious approach. If that means extending deadlines for releasing lockdown fully, most people are behind it.

Problem lies in the thinking most people are relaxed about it and if so it s ok ,,, we could list the stuff most people have been relaxed about in recent past that have been hard fought to change and rightly changed ??‍♂️

Edited June 14, 2021 by Archied

[ketteringram]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I hope, but I bet not. No-one would be happy with that, but some are happy with 4 weeks.

Presumably, if the number of cases is rising daily, then in 4 weeks time , things will be worse than they are now.

[Marriot Ram99]

Come November we'll be in full lockdown again and they'll be talking about a few more weeks to flatten the curve all over again, they'll be more variants and at some point it will have to be accepted that restrictions can't carry on any longer and Covid causing deaths is inevitable. 

[GboroRam]

45 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Says who? The media scaring the public into expecting lots more deaths and hospitalisations based on what?

I saw a news article saying that. I can't find it now, but it does sort of fit. It's the noisy minority that talk about the unfairness of lockdown. Look at this thread. Take down 10 vocal people and pretty much there's nobody left arguing. It's a vocal minority.

Edit: apologies for the Guardian link, which obviously invalidates it if you don't agree with it. But it's an Observer poll it refers to: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/12/delay-ending-lockdown-majority-of-public-back-boris-johnson. 54% favour delaying lockdown

Edited June 14, 2021 by GboroRam
link.

[maxjam]

9 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I saw a news article saying that. I can't find it now, but it does sort of fit. It's the noisy minority that talk about the unfairness of lockdown. Look at this thread. Take down 10 vocal people and pretty much there's nobody left arguing. It's a vocal minority.

Edit: apologies for the Guardian link, which obviously invalidates it if you don't agree with it. But it's an Observer poll it refers to: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/12/delay-ending-lockdown-majority-of-public-back-boris-johnson. 54% favour delaying lockdown

Probably because no one else can afford to turn their PCs on ? 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/14/great-britain-high-streets-lost-more-than-17500-chain-stores-in-2020-covid

People that work in Government or media and people that are working from home or furloughed are gonna be quiet - things are quite nice atm.  For everyone else, times are tough. 

The biggest noise is likely to come when the lockdowns and furlough ends.  A lot of people, especially the young aren't going to have jobs to go back to.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/03/the-uks-covid-19-unemployment-crisis-in-six-charts

Oh and never apologise for posting Guardian links, its the only way you can get some people to read your argument round here ? 

 

[RoyMac5]

27 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I saw a news article saying that. I can't find it now, but it does sort of fit. It's the noisy minority that talk about the unfairness of lockdown. Look at this thread. Take down 10 vocal people and pretty much there's nobody left arguing. It's a vocal minority...

Lots of people don't get heard as they can't shout loudly enough...

 

[BucksRam]

OK, I may be biased as someone with a vulnerable wife, but I'm OK with deferring the wholescale reopening as it's likely doing so will create a huge rise in cases.  We're all supposedly following restrictions now, and most still are (rule of 6 / 2 families etc) but I've seen loads of people mingling as if life is normal.  Cases in my area (Aylesbury Vale) continue to rise, and currently stand at around 330 live cases, up by over a 100 on last week.....and obviously that's only those tested or reported.  Cases have been rising consistently since the May lift of restrictions.  If delaying it provides opportunity for x million more to get vaccinated then this makes perfect sense. 

There's still a scary amount of ignorance out there too; only this morning I saw a post from one of my Facebook "friends" arguing that the lockdown should be lifted as most people have had 2 jabs and are therefore immune and so it's OK for them to go about their business, indeed it's their right to do so, as they won't a) catch it and b) pass it on.  No, no, no.  It's thinking like this that backs up any decision to defer lifting all restrictions IMO. 

At some point we're absolutely going to have to just accept and live with this virus, as we do with the flu, but we're no-where near that point yet due to the current lack of understanding and experience around all the variants and mutations.  Flu still mutates but we've had decades to understand it and tailor vaccines accordingly.  Much as we've done an amazing job developing and rolling out vaccines for COVID it is still early days.  

Using a Health Foundation report as a source, in a bad flu year the UK sees between 25000 - 30000 deaths (flu and pneumonia combined) - that equates to some 250,000 life years lost (i.e. how much longer those people would have lived had they not died). 

With COVID, since March 2020, in the UK alone, COVID related deaths have resulted in the loss of around 1,500,000 life years - 6 times the amount.  

Only one report, I agree but it's quite a powerful message. So if BJ decides to defer for 4 weeks, I for one will comply even if, like most, I too want to get back to complete normality.

[Gone]

3 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Happy ain't the right word, but I think most people are relaxed about taking a cautious approach. If that means extending deadlines for releasing lockdown fully, most people are behind it.

I disagree there’s a lot of folk not happy about it and more than the noisey minority you mentioned on here.
The anger seems to be mainly because 4 weeks delay means nothing, we are just kicking the can down the road. In 4 weeks it’ll be another 4 weeks. If we can’t open up now with the current hospitalisations numbers, death rates and vaccination delivered then we will never open up. The government are scared to death now to return to normality, they are  simply terrified of being blamed for anything. A quick look at the calls for sackings, inquiries, prosecutions for manslaughter tells you why. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by TexasRam

[angieram]

It's really difficult to gauge how many people are on each side of this debate, even on here, so across society as a whole even more so.

I get the feeling that the people on here against extending the date on fully lifting restrictions are more vociferous on here at least.

I would have accepted either decision, but feel more comfortable with a delay. 

I do think there'll be a few more concessions announced today, particularly on limits for funerals and weddings.

[MrPlinkett]

Difficult to gauge how people feel, i was all for opening but happy to wait if it means there will be less likely a chance of re-instating restrictions.

All my work colleagues I have spoken to today seem to feel the same, that we have waited this long, we may as well wait another 4 weeks.

How much longer we are happy to wait of course remains to be seen should there be a further extension in 4 weeks.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

I saw a news article saying that. I can't find it now, but it does sort of fit. It's the noisy minority that talk about the unfairness of lockdown. Look at this thread. Take down 10 vocal people and pretty much there's nobody left arguing. It's a vocal minority.

Edit: apologies for the Guardian link, which obviously invalidates it if you don't agree with it. But it's an Observer poll it refers to: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/12/delay-ending-lockdown-majority-of-public-back-boris-johnson. 54% favour delaying lockdown

Wow.

Do you actually believe what you are saying here?

I literally know nobody that supports extending lockdown other than the noisy minority on here.

Im from an age group where we have all now had our second jabs, and even my parents who were poo scared before have said its now time to open up.

[Gone]

16 minutes ago, MrPlinkett said:

Difficult to gauge how people feel, i was all for opening but happy to wait if it means there will be less likely a chance of re-instating restrictions.

All my work colleagues I have spoken to today seem to feel the same, that we have waited this long, we may as well wait another 4 weeks.

How much longer we are happy to wait of course remains to be seen should there be a further extension in 4 weeks.

 

22 minutes ago, angieram said:

It's really difficult to gauge how many people are on each side of this debate, even on here, so across society as a whole even more so.

I get the feeling that the people on here against extending the date on fully lifting restrictions are more vociferous on here at least.

I would have accepted either decision, but feel more comfortable with a delay. 

I do think there'll be a few more concessions announced today, particularly on limits for funerals and weddings.

The worry is what will change in 4 weeks? As far as I can see absolutely nothing, so then what? another 4 weeks just in case? 

[BucksRam]

24 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

 

The worry is what will change in 4 weeks? As far as I can see absolutely nothing, so then what? another 4 weeks just in case? 

I guess the fact that currently an average of 170,000 people a day are getting their first jab and 300,000 their second so in four weeks another 4.5 million will have had one jab, and over 8 million their second if the rate continues. 

[Gone]

11 minutes ago, BucksRam said:

I guess the fact that currently an average of 170,000 people a day are getting their first jab and 300,000 their second so in four weeks another 4.5 million will have had one jab, and over 8 million their second if the rate continues. 

But the group you are taking about are the ones on the whole that aren’t detrimentally effected by the effects of Covid so what difference does it make. 99% of those we were protecting are now protected. Are we saying we now need as close to zero infections as possible? I can’t keep up with the moving goalposts.

 

[maxjam]

[angieram]

9 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

But the group you are taking about are the ones on the whole that aren’t detrimentally effected by the effects of Covid so what difference does it make. 99% of those we were protecting are now protected. Are we saying we now need as close to zero infections as possible? I can’t keep up with the moving goalposts.

 

Whilst I would have thought that, too, it has been stated that the recent covid hospitalisations in Bolton have been much younger people than previous waves.

As long as these people keep going to hospitals for treatment then public health people are going to be worried. 

Does it mean this strain affects people more? Who knows? This is the main reason they want to delay, to give more time for hospitalisation and fatality data to either develop, or prove there is nothing to worry about. A further 4.5 million being more fully protected during this time will help, too.

[Anon]

19 minutes ago, maxjam said:

So there we have it. The most effective inoculation against the Chinese flu is money.

[BucksRam]

24 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

But the group you are taking about are the ones on the whole that aren’t detrimentally effected by the effects of Covid so what difference does it make. 99% of those we were protecting are now protected. Are we saying we now need as close to zero infections as possible? I can’t keep up with the moving goalposts.

 

I agree it's difficult to keep up with the goalposts - and also that the current vaccinations are for those who won't generally be affected by bad symptoms, but also, based on what I've personally seen a lot of the gatherings are by those in the 20-30 year bracket and the key thing with vaccinations is it also vastly reduces transmissibility - the more vaccinated, the less chance of passing it on.  I do empathise with the argument to open it all up, all I'm saying is that on a personal level, I'm happy to wait and would understand the rationale for caution.  IF everything is fully opened up, I would probably still make a personal choice to pick and choose how and with whom my family and I mixed until such time I see what the impact on infections, hospitalisation and deaths is following a full lifting of restrictions, and as we head toward the colder months. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

For the past 4 weeks the media have scaremongered us all into getting what they want, a further 4 weeks delay. They've dragged so called scientists from under every rock they could find to keep telling us how important it is to not lift all restrictions.

Now they've got their way, they are talking to ministers who dont want to keep restrictions going - why they didn't talk to these people in the last 4 weeks tells you everything you need to know what the agenda is. 

I'll give it another 2 weeks and we'll be listening from Dr Lockdown from the university of restrictions telling us we must keep restrictions going until at least April 2022 when we've been able to vaccinate our pet dog. 

[maxjam]

Just pulled the following image off the ONS website.  Whilst infections are higher amongst the younger population, hospitalization and deaths are still negligible.  It does seem to be passing through the largely unaffected age groups which imo is not a reason to extend the June 21 deadline.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19/latestinsights#hospitalisations

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by maxjam