The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Impossible to reach that conclusion without knowing what would have happened otherwise, of course.

Yes, plus I am aware that they have now shoehorned under 18s on to the graph to make it look worse.

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes, plus I am aware that they have now shoehorned under 18s on to the graph to make it look worse.

It would be odd to have 16+'s getting jabbed and not include them in the figures. No doubt you would then accuse them of trying to make the numbers look better.

If they really wanted to make the figures look poor, which is what you seem to be claiming now, why not use the percentage of total population regardless of age?.

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Having kept an eye on the graph showing the percentage of the population vaccinated, I would say the veiled threat has had very little if any impact.

Once again they have just undermined themselves and lost yet even more public confidence.

Of course they will now think they look like the heroes that have come to the rescue. 

It's straight out of the 1984 'chocolate rations' playbook.

Quote

“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday […] it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it. [...] The eyeless creature at the other table swallowed it fanatically. passionately, with a furious desire to track down, denounce, and vaporize anyone who should suggest that last week the ration had been thirty grams. Syme, too-in some more double complex way, involving doublethink-Syme, swallowed it. Was he, then, alone in the possession of a memory?”

 

[G STAR RAM]

So the Government have decided to overrule the experts:-

All children aged 12 to 15 in England will be offered one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid jab, Vaccines Minister Nadhim Zahawi has said.

Invitations for the jab will begin next week, the government said, and parental consent will be sought for the schools-based vaccination programme.

It follows advice from the UK's chief medical officers, who say the jab will help reduce disruption to education.

A rollout is yet to be confirmed in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Earlier on Monday, the UK's four chief medical officers recommended the single dose for 12 to 15-year-olds - who are deemed at very low risk from the disease - saying factors such as disruption to education tipped the balance.

Prof Chris Whitty, the lead CMO for the UK, said it was a "difficult decision" and should not be seen as a "silver bullet".

But he said it could be an "important and useful tool" in reducing school disruption in the coming months - and when combined with the marginal health benefit identified by vaccine advisory body the JCVI, it meant offering a Covid vaccine to all children was appropriate.

 

I'm particulary interested in the emboldened paragraph and would have liked to see the justification. 

If the vaccine does not stop you from getting the virus and does not stop you from spreading the virus, how exactly does schoolchildren getting the vaccine help disruption to education?

[Wolfie]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So the Government have decided to overrule the experts:-

All children aged 12 to 15 in England will be offered one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid jab, Vaccines Minister Nadhim Zahawi has said.

Invitations for the jab will begin next week, the government said, and parental consent will be sought for the schools-based vaccination programme.

It follows advice from the UK's chief medical officers, who say the jab will help reduce disruption to education.

A rollout is yet to be confirmed in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Earlier on Monday, the UK's four chief medical officers recommended the single dose for 12 to 15-year-olds - who are deemed at very low risk from the disease - saying factors such as disruption to education tipped the balance.

Prof Chris Whitty, the lead CMO for the UK, said it was a "difficult decision" and should not be seen as a "silver bullet".

But he said it could be an "important and useful tool" in reducing school disruption in the coming months - and when combined with the marginal health benefit identified by vaccine advisory body the JCVI, it meant offering a Covid vaccine to all children was appropriate.

 

I'm particulary interested in the emboldened paragraph and would have liked to see the justification. 

If the vaccine does not stop you from getting the virus and does not stop you from spreading the virus, how exactly does schoolchildren getting the vaccine help disruption to education?

Are the CMO's not qualified to decide?. Also the JCVI concluded there was a marginal health benefit from vaccinations - to the children themselves. They did not have the remit to look at possible wider benefits.

So which experts have they overruled?

[RoyMac5]

FWIW

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

If the vaccine does not stop you from getting the virus and does not stop you from spreading the virus, how exactly does schoolchildren getting the vaccine help disruption to education?

Clinical evidence shows that a single dose of Pfizer cuts the risk of catching the Delta variant of Covid-19 by 55% 

You can't transmit if you don't have the virus - so cutting the amount of infections in half means half as many education disruptions

Edited September 14, 2021 by Stive Pesley

[Archied]

That will be why lockdowns and vaccine passports have been put on the back burner, 

this is now without doubt financial 

[Archied]

30 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Clinical evidence shows that a single dose of Pfizer cuts the risk of catching the Delta variant of Covid-19 by 55% 

You can't transmit if you don't have the virus - so cutting the amount of infections in half means half as many education disruptions

How can that data be anything other than guessing and modelling, 

how long have they had to fully study people with one jab ? How long does immunities from one jab last ? Do they know people who have had one jab and don’t catch it have actually come into the right circumstances to catch it ?

Those figures tell me that 45% of single jabbed have caught it , that tells me the other 55% can catch it too

[Stive Pesley]

59 minutes ago, Archied said:

How can that data be anything other than guessing and modelling, 

how long have they had to fully study people with one jab ? How long does immunities from one jab last ? Do they know people who have had one jab and don’t catch it have actually come into the right circumstances to catch it ?

Those figures tell me that 45% of single jabbed have caught it , that tells me the other 55% can catch it too

I think you're drawing some wrong mathematical conclusions from the data, but I'm not here for an argument about it

Have a read and make up your own mind
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1000512/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_27.pdf

It actually states 55-70% but with a medium level of certainty, so 55% is the low estimate.

But anyway - I was just answering G Star's question about how vaccination of 12-15 year olds would lead to less educational disruption

Even if it was 1% it would still lead to a reduction in cases = less disruption to education

Also not sure why the same people who have argued about how important it is to NOT disrupt our children's education are now wanting to dispute the scientific evidence that would give them the result they say they wanted (less disruption)

 

[Eddie]

9 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

So the Government have decided to overrule the experts

Not quite. They have taken further advice with respect to taking into account societal merits of vaccinating all 13-15 year olds versus just the marginal individual health 'benefits' of not vaccinating 13-15 year old boys because of the short-term heart inflammation affecting between 3 and 16 cases per million - an aspect that you have argued for consistently with respect to the lifting of restrictions in the past.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Eddie

[Archied]

7 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I think you're drawing some wrong mathematical conclusions from the data, but I'm not here for an argument about it

Have a read and make up your own mind
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1000512/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_27.pdf

It actually states 55-70% but with a medium level of certainty, so 55% is the low estimate.

But anyway - I was just answering G Star's question about how vaccination of 12-15 year olds would lead to less educational disruption

Even if it was 1% it would still lead to a reduction in cases = less disruption to education

Also not sure why the same people who have argued about how important it is to NOT disrupt our children's education are now wanting to dispute the scientific evidence that would give them the result they say they wanted (less disruption)

 

Just stop closing schools , stop testing healthy children ,, simples??‍♂️

[Archied]

8 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I think you're drawing some wrong mathematical conclusions from the data, but I'm not here for an argument about it

Have a read and make up your own mind
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1000512/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_27.pdf

It actually states 55-70% but with a medium level of certainty, so 55% is the low estimate.

But anyway - I was just answering G Star's question about how vaccination of 12-15 year olds would lead to less educational disruption

Even if it was 1% it would still lead to a reduction in cases = less disruption to education

Also not sure why the same people who have argued about how important it is to NOT disrupt our children's education are now wanting to dispute the scientific evidence that would give them the result they say they wanted (less disruption)

 

Week 27 

[uttoxram75]

Its getting a bit strange now, news reports saying theres more cases than this time last year despite 80% of people being vaccinated.

No one was vaccinated this time last year but there are more cases now? I don't wish to argue with anyone and I know no one will ever change their mind once made, but I'm struggling to see whats going on here?

 

[Boycie]

15 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its getting a bit strange now, news reports saying theres more cases than this time last year despite 80% of people being vaccinated.

No one was vaccinated this time last year but there are more cases now? I don't wish to argue with anyone and I know no one will ever change their mind once made, but I'm struggling to see whats going on here?

 

The jab don’t stop you getting it, therefore people who think it does are going about their business unawares and catching it. Rather than taking precautions this time last year, masks, places of work and social mixing shut etc.

 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its getting a bit strange now, news reports saying theres more cases than this time last year despite 80% of people being vaccinated.

No one was vaccinated this time last year but there are more cases now? I don't wish to argue with anyone and I know no one will ever change their mind once made, but I'm struggling to see whats going on here?

 

Vaccination against COVID-19 has one major benefit - it trains the body to fight the virus and, for the most part, that stops you dying. It doesn't necessarily stop you catching the virus - or passing it on.

It's also worth pointing out that the Delta virus is far more virulent than the earlier forms which were in circulation a year ago.

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

stop testing healthy children

Great idea. Stop counting cases, therefore there will be no cases. That's Trump-level pants-on-headedness.

[Archied]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

Great idea. Stop counting cases, therefore there will be no cases. That's Trump-level pants-on-headedness.

You say the vaccine stops you stops you dying, kids don’t die from it ,testing healthy kids and closing schools on mass is pants on head trump level 

[Archied]

9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its getting a bit strange now, news reports saying theres more cases than this time last year despite 80% of people being vaccinated.

No one was vaccinated this time last year but there are more cases now? I don't wish to argue with anyone and I know no one will ever change their mind once made, but I'm struggling to see whats going on here?

 

The madness is going on here , and on and on and on , before vaccines 98 % survived ( most with nothing more than flu symptoms or less), now we are told vaccines slash the 2% of fatalities but still we carry on with project fear , vaccinate children , boosters for ALL ( follow jcvi for one , not for the other?‍♂️) lockdowns still held over us on the back burner, vaccine passport on the back burner , wfh on the back burner, mask mandates on the back burner,

still don’t personally know a single person who has died or been seriously ill , given the whole world has been decimated that’s rather strange 

[Stive Pesley]

14 minutes ago, Archied said:

still don’t personally know a single person who has died or been seriously ill , given the whole world has been decimated that’s rather strange 

Really? I've lost count of the number of people I know who have had it and been very poorly and know 3 people who have died.

That might be why some of your comments get taken quite badly by people and seen as insensitive?