What would McClaren do with this team?

[MuespachRam]

I think the first thing Stevie Mac would do would be say “what? You sold William....! “ 

[Day]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

People say ''time to move on'' all the time about Martin and McClaren, but the reason people haven't moved on is simple. We've never brought in a manager that has close to achieved what Mac did, and we've never signed a striker half as competent as Martin in the time he's been here. When we do that, people will move on.

Lampard took us to Wembley, that’s how far McClaren took us. Did it without Martin as well, something McClaren couldn’t do.

[Earl of Tupton]

23 minutes ago, Alpha said:

He had a plan B. 

He just didn't play 5 different formations per match with 3 different styles using 25 players per month. Nobody successful compromises their philosophy. They adapt. And we did. 

Injuries are what tested Mac's depth. Injuries to key positions he then tried to fill with inadequate replacements. 

Agree up to a point. But the rot started to set in before a lot of the injuries took hold. A lot of teams sussed us out he didn’t seem able to arrest the decline. In that 2014 season we still had a squad good enough to make the playoffs. Also we’ll never know how much of a distraction the Newcastle thing was.
 

Same happened in his second spell albeit to a lesser extent and couldn’t really blame injuries for that one.

So it’s still a no from me.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, David said:

Lampard took us to Wembley, that’s how far McClaren took us. Did it without Martin as well, something McClaren couldn’t do.

We were nowhere near as good though, were we? We scraped into 6th, with Mac we blasted our way into 3rd and thrashed half the league in the process. I enjoyed the Lampard season, but it doesn't compare to the McClaren one.

[Andicis]

Just now, DC-1975 said:

The reason people say time to move on is because they've seen far better mangers come and go before and I much as I think Chris Martin was good, I could name at least 10 better strikers who we've moved on from in the time I've been watching and that doesn't include Hector, O'Hare, George etc.

Yeah, but we're not in that era anymore. And in this current one, we haven't. Derby aren't the side playing in Europe anymore, we're bottom of the Championship and we play dull football. Mac and Martin would **still** transform this side. It's the best Derby has been in like 15 years. Maybe more, I can't remember past that. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

The reason people say time to move on is because they've seen far better mangers come and go before and much as I think Chris Martin was good, I could name at least 10 better strikers who we've moved on from in the time I've been watching and that doesn't include Hector, O'Hare, George etc.

Go on then.

[Day]

Just now, Andicis said:

We were nowhere near as good though, were we? We scraped into 6th, with Mac we blasted our way into 3rd and thrashed half the league in the process. I enjoyed the Lampard season, but it doesn't compare to the McClaren one.

I enjoyed the Lampard season, 13/14 was more enjoyable, but ultimately they both achieved the same. A day out to Wembley that’s it.

Both made questionable team selections on the day leaving out Bryson and Marriott. 

If anything, I would argue McClaren should have done better, failing to score against 10 men. 

Villa without a doubt had a far far stronger squad of players than we did, even had Marriott started I’m not convinced we would have won.

We have to move on though, it’s been 6 years now, no chance of any big reunion and giving it another crack.

If we was to go down the McClaren route yet again, we all might still be here but only Forsyth and Wisdom remain at the club. Time to look forwards not back.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, David said:

If we was to go down the McClaren route yet again, we all might still be here but only Forsyth and Wisdom remain at the club. Time to look forwards not back.

But that is besides the point. He doesn't need the **exact** same players he had. He has players with a lot of similarities though. Jason Knight is just a more gifted Bryson, Bielik is the best holding mid we've had since Thorne, I'm sure he'd be able to get a lot of use out of Sibley and Bird, and we saw what he did with Ibe the first time around. He'd like Jozwiak too. Mac would get a bounce out of this squad, I can say this reliably. 

[Earl of Tupton]

12 minutes ago, Andicis said:

People say ''time to move on'' all the time about Martin and McClaren, but the reason people haven't moved on is simple. We've never brought in a manager that has close to achieved what Mac did, and we've never signed a striker half as competent as Martin in the time he's been here. When we do that, people will move on.

Fair point. It took a lot out our fans about twenty years to finally get Cloughie out of their systems. And I accept the first 12 months under McClaren were a hell of a ride. But he doesn’t seem able to sustain it long term. So surely we can’t keep hanging our hats on the McClaren fallback plan every time we find ourselves in this situation. 

If you always do what you always did, you’ll always get what you always got.

 

[Coneheadjohn]

9 minutes ago, David said:

Lampard took us to Wembley, that’s how far McClaren took us. Did it without Martin as well, something McClaren couldn’t do.

Lampard had Bizzle.

If you had to pick Mac or Gregory who would it be?

You’re not allowed to not pick one.

[Ramos]

13 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

It was such a good team

No disputing that - it’s just we talk about it like it was our treble winning year or the invincibles - which is my point that we really have been starved of any real success since I started supporting Derby in 1999 - that our best memories are of a team that ultimately failed. The life of a Derby fan hey. 

[jimbobram]

This team needs a tweak. Just like the team did when Mac took over the first time. 

Current team:

The slight tweak would be the formation. Moving away from 2CDM to 1 allows us to get more bodies forward. It already looks a more attack minded formation. Our players need to be told to play without fear. Cocu far too overly cautious. To the point that when we did go behind the whole clubs midset is that we are never winning this game. Mac's mentality the the complete opposite. 

In terms of strengthening the squad, first thing he would do would be to look for a CF. other areas which need looking at is a quality centre mid and centre back if available. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by jimbobram

[Andicis]

8 minutes ago, Lamp Frankard said:

But he doesn’t seem able to sustain it long term. So surely we can’t keep hanging our hats on the McClaren fallback plan every time we find ourselves in this situation. 

If you always do what you always did, you’ll always get what you always got.

He never got given the chance to sustain it long term. He got no time the 2nd spell, and the 1st spell as soon as our form fell due to injuries, he got booted. He'd have turned it around on both occasions if Mel had afforded him the same patience he afforded Cocu. 

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

But that is besides the point. He doesn't need the **exact** same players he had. He has players with a lot of similarities though. Jason Knight is just a more gifted Bryson, Bielik is the best holding mid we've had since Thorne, I'm sure he'd be able to get a lot of use out of Sibley and Bird, and we saw what he did with Ibe the first time around. He'd like Jozwiak too. Mac would get a bounce out of this squad, I can say this reliably. 

It’s more than that though, you can’t compare and match as many players as you want but will Knight and McClaren get on, or will they run each other up the wrong way. 

Can McClaren recreate the same team spirit with this set of personalities in the dressing room? 

It’s not as easy as saying Bird can be Thorne, Knight can play Hendrick and Sibley Hughes.

But if we did make it that simple for a second, who plays Martin as he was a key ingredient to what made the team successful, we saw what happened without him.

When people say he had no plan B, I would imagine him chucking Bent in there and hoping for the same result is what they thinking.

Who’s to say he would even instantly play 4-3-3?

I don’t see it as being this “safe” appointment others see it as, it would be a risk as any other appointment would be, but he would come without the clean slate, fans won’t just forget the Newcastle thing, they won’t forget him having a laugh with Hughton on the sideline whilst Brighton are ripping us apart on the pitch. 

It would be a nostalgic appointment that makes very little sense at this point.

[Day]

9 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said:

Lampard had Bizzle.

If you had to pick Mac or Gregory who would it be?

You’re not allowed to not pick one.

Why are you making me pick between Mac and Gregory though, where does he come into this?

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, David said:

I don’t see it as being this “safe” appointment others see it as, it would be a risk as any other appointment would be, but he would come without the clean slate, fans won’t just forget the Newcastle thing, they won’t forget him having a laugh with Hughton on the sideline whilst Brighton are ripping us apart on the pitch. 

I agree he'd come in without the clean slate, which is the main detraction for him. But that comes down to our fans being ungrateful for what he did in both spells. It would be safe though. Both times he's joined us we immediately shot up the league. The second time we were near the relegation zone as well weren't we? Just the simple tweaks in tactics he would make would propel us out of the mess we're in. 

And he didn't need Martin to do it in the second spell, he still got us away from the relegation zone. It'd be a safe, proven coach, who we know plays the right style of football and can get some of our gifted youngsters playing.

[Uptherams]

12 minutes ago, David said:

I enjoyed the Lampard season, 13/14 was more enjoyable, but ultimately they both achieved the same. A day out to Wembley that’s it.

Both made questionable team selections on the day leaving out Bryson and Marriott. 

If anything, I would argue McClaren should have done better, failing to score against 10 men. 

Villa without a doubt had a far far stronger squad of players than we did, even had Marriott started I’m not convinced we would have won.

We have to move on though, it’s been 6 years now, no chance of any big reunion and giving it another crack.

If we was to go down the McClaren route yet again, we all might still be here but only Forsyth and Wisdom remain at the club. Time to look forwards not back.

McClaren is moving forward. He's a progressive forward thinking manager. I vividly remember him arguing for us to play out from the back and in a league game against QPR stating he wasn't disappointed when we lost because of playing out from the back. Saying it will happen every so often and the players aren't to blame, they were doing the right thing. 

We aren't about to waste another 18 months to two years. 

He can get the best out of players due to his management style. 

McClaren has very good connections regarding loans and transfers. He's the only one on this list that would allow Rooney to potentially be assistant manager. 

He is also very up to date on who we are as a club. He follows us and through Opta stats. He knows about our youth policy and he thinks it's great. 

 

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

Ok. This is my opinion remember, so doesn't need your laughing emoji.

Davison, Saunders, Goddard, Harford, Gabbiadini, Johnson, Wanchope, Baiano, Sturridge, Rasiak

There's 10. Could make arguments for Howard and Gee too

I'll give you some of them. But guess what we still liken new strikers to Bobby and others! The reason it's so Martin is because for nearly a decade (or more) he's been our best. 

[Coneheadjohn]

7 minutes ago, David said:

Why are you making me pick between Mac and Gregory though, where does he come into this?

It’s a challenge.

If you don’t pick you end up in Igor’s dish with Chris Martin.

[Day]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I agree he'd come in without the clean slate, which is the main detraction for him. But that comes down to our fans being ungrateful for what he did in both spells. It would be safe though. Both times he's joined us we immediately shot up the league. The second time we were near the relegation zone as well weren't we? Just the simple tweaks in tactics he would make would propel us out of the mess we're in. 

And he didn't need Martin to do it in the second spell, he still got us away from the relegation zone. It'd be a safe, proven coach, who we know plays the right style of football and can get some of our gifted youngsters playing.

Wouldn’t say they are ungrateful as such, can’t speak on all fans behalf’s, personally though the Newcastle thing grated on me. 

Saw another member claim both Eric Steele and Jamie Ward said on the radio he handled it badly, even refused to talk about it with the players.

We also fell out the top 6, didn’t really do anything to change what was going on.

I just really struggle with this idea that he’s the safe choice, is the world of football managers really that small we need to go back to a man that in terms of promotion has failed us twice?

Obviously promotion is out the question this year without a ridiculous run of wins, are we really going to pin our hopes on nothing more than a third time lucky approach for next year?