Carl Sagan Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 We've not had the continuity we needed. Four years was right for the club, to bring about stability and a consistent strategy. If it's some kind of obstacle to Cocu being sacked now meaning he gets longer to bring about the Academy revolution at Derby, and see a team of our own lads storming the Championship and on into the Premier League, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Millenniumram said: It’s necessary because we’re bottom of the league and playing awfully. We’ve scored one league goal from open play all season. A new manager would struggle to do a much worse job. Cocu seems like a lovely bloke, but I don’t think he’s a particularly great coach to be honest. Most players seem to have regressed under him, and he’s certainly not getting the best out of our attacking options. Feels very similar to the Nigel Clough days. We need a new manager to come in and do a similar job to McClaren when he first arrived - get the best out of a squad of players that were held back by the previous man in charge. Who's regressed under him? We're in terrible form, confidence is at rock bottom and we have no cohesion but I don't anyone has regressed under him other than Fozzy whose injuries seem to be catching up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said: We've not had the continuity we needed. Four years was right for the club, to bring about stability and a consistent strategy. If it's some kind of obstacle to Cocu being sacked now meaning he gets longer to bring about the Academy revolution at Derby, and see a team of our own lads storming the Championship and on into the Premier League, I'm all for it. What's the basis for your optimism Carl? Seriously,if we could all see that this was going somewhere then we night be behind him but we are sitting at the bottom of the championship with a couple of goals scored over eleven games and a declining performance even with a returning squad of Cocus first choice players. Where the light at the end of the tunnel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Just now, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Where the light at the end of the tunnel? Indeed. What worries me as much as relegation with Cocu, is Cocu changing the way the Academy is set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, lrm14 said: Who's regressed under him? We're in terrible form, confidence is at rock bottom and we have no cohesion but I don't anyone has regressed under him other than Fozzy whose injuries seem to be catching up. Most of the forward players. Waghorn looks half the player he was in terms of his hold up play. Marriott was never great but at least he used to score goals. Holmes was magic carrying the ball forward at times under Lampard, he looks totally lost now. Sibley seems to have lost the spark he had when he stepped up from the U23’s. Jozwiak looks to have a lot more to offer than we’re seeing at the moment. The more I watch, the more I’m convinced Cocu is simply a very poor attacking coach, and that’s part of the reason why we’re not scoring any goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Curtains said: This forum is not true reflection of 30k and more Derby fans is it. I genuinely don't know to answer your question. I would have thought that it was a fair assumption that just like election day exit polls one extrapolates the opinion of a relatively small sampling group across the whole group. Not sure why it would be any different in this instance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 10 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: We've not had the continuity we needed. Four years was right for the club, to bring about stability and a consistent strategy. If it's some kind of obstacle to Cocu being sacked now meaning he gets longer to bring about the Academy revolution at Derby, and see a team of our own lads storming the Championship and on into the Premier League, I'm all for it. Well we are pretty consistent now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 10 hours ago, lrm14 said: Who's regressed under him? We're in terrible form, confidence is at rock bottom and we have no cohesion but I don't anyone has regressed under him other than Fozzy whose injuries seem to be catching up. Hi sibley, bird an example of leaning too heavily on youth too early and too often. Humbly suggest maybe Rooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 12 hours ago, RIMBAUD said: I assume Mel and Cocu agreed it so that there was stability. We’ve had a great deal of chopping and changing so Mel probably felt this was the right guy to establish a stable regime. It still might prove to be the right call. or not... And also because we've made a bit of dosh on the last two managers to leave so this could have made us some money if he had done well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyram59 Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 15 hours ago, Curtains said: Glad you are back mate . You see the hysteria would suggest he’s gone already and Rooney is the next manager. I don’t know why I just like Cocu and I respect him. Maybe I’m misguided but I have had lots of experience of Derby getting rid of managers too early. Can't understand why you respect him as a manager he is the most negative and dull manager we have had for a long time, the number of games we have won whilst he as been manager are very low, he doesn't inspire any passion into the players. Let's carry on with him as our manager and he will take us to league 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 I am sorry to say 4 years does look to long. We would been better off with a 3 year contract with a option to extend. Something to remember for next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 13 hours ago, Millenniumram said: Most of the forward players. Waghorn looks half the player he was in terms of his hold up play. Marriott was never great but at least he used to score goals. Holmes was magic carrying the ball forward at times under Lampard, he looks totally lost now. Sibley seems to have lost the spark he had when he stepped up from the U23’s. Jozwiak looks to have a lot more to offer than we’re seeing at the moment. The more I watch, the more I’m convinced Cocu is simply a very poor attacking coach, and that’s part of the reason why we’re not scoring any goals. I would say that Waghorn looks better this season than before (and don’t forget he is recovering from a long injury) Marriott was rubbish under Fat Frank and does not play for us anymore so a useless comparison To say Holmes was “magic” is a longer stretch than Trump will be getting...he is was and always will be bang average at the very very best. siblely again is coming back from a long injury and who exactly got the best out of him on the first place....? Not fat Frank was It..? Jozwiak is getting used to the league, I’m sure he has a lot more to offer and in time we will see It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Clarke doesn't look POTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Clarke doesn't look POTS I think he looks good in comparison with the rest (damned with faint praise), shocked he was subbed on Saturday really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Spanish said: I think he looks good in comparison with the rest (damned with faint praise), shocked he was subbed on Saturday really Yet some posters question whether the players would be right to lose belief in Cocu. I'm sure it was explained to him, probably something to do with left and right feet, oh or that rhythm thing he got wrong a time ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 14 hours ago, Millenniumram said: Most of the forward players. Waghorn looks half the player he was in terms of his hold up play. Marriott was never great but at least he used to score goals. Holmes was magic carrying the ball forward at times under Lampard, he looks totally lost now. Sibley seems to have lost the spark he had when he stepped up from the U23’s. Jozwiak looks to have a lot more to offer than we’re seeing at the moment. The more I watch, the more I’m convinced Cocu is simply a very poor attacking coach, and that’s part of the reason why we’re not scoring any goals. You don't think the long term injuries took their toll? Not just on Waghorn, Holmes and Marriott but also on Lawrence and Rooney. And you don't think those injuries, and their aftermath (quest to get back fully fit without a pre-season, albeit a short one), to those key players hasn't had an effect on our attacking play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 14 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: What's the basis for your optimism Carl? Seriously,if we could all see that this was going somewhere then we night be behind him but we are sitting at the bottom of the championship with a couple of goals scored over eleven games and a declining performance even with a returning squad of Cocus first choice players. Where the light at the end of the tunnel? It's a really good question, Kash. I'm certainly not 100% confident in Cocu, but I'm certainly not confident that replacing him and changing direction yet again will be good for the club. The confidence I do have is built around Cocu's history at PSV and the time it took to transform them into the dominant force in Dutch football again, which he did but not at first. It took a couple of years of developing the younger players and bringing them through, while on a four-year contract. The adversity Cocu has faced at Derby has been astonishing. The Lawrence/Bennett/Huddlestone/Keogh incident beggared belief and we're still suffering in that Keogh was a very hard player to replace, especially with our obvious financial difficulties. Because of those difficulties Cocu is working with his hands tied behind his back, and we've had to gamble. I am excited at seeing what the likes of Ibe and a fit Bielik can bring to our team in the coming months. Jozwiak looks a great buy. I think the sale of Lowe and the emergence of Buchanan and his elevation to the England U21 team give a glimpse of what is possible if we stick with Cocu and his ability to bring on young players. It has been depressing to watch at times, but it seems clear to me that Cocu is bringing in exciting players and I love the idea of a Dutch, total football, youth-led revolution at Derby. But I'll stop there because it's partly hope and faith, I acknowledge. But there are a lot of games left and I would love to give Cocu a few more months, before we end this experiment where the potential rewards are so very high if we get it right. We do have a golden generation coming through at the club and we know Cocu is fundamentally committed to youth, and I fear all will be lost for the sake of a short-term fix if we get rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, IslandExile said: You don't think the long term injuries took their toll? Not just on Waghorn, Holmes and Marriott but also on Lawrence and Rooney. And you don't think those injuries, and their aftermath (quest to get back fully fit without a pre-season, albeit a short one), to those key players hasn't had an effect on our attacking play? I’m sure it’s had an effect. But it shouldn’t be having as much of an effect as it is right now. We cannot keep deflecting blame away from the man working with these players on the training ground. What I see on the pitch is a group of players who don’t have a clue what to do when they reach the final third. That’s on the manager, nothing to do with fitness. For what it’s worth, I’m not just talking about this season. Most of what I’m saying was evident through the majority of last season, apart from a purple patch when Rooney first arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 15 hours ago, Millenniumram said: Most of the forward players. Waghorn looks half the player he was in terms of his hold up play. Marriott was never great but at least he used to score goals. Holmes was magic carrying the ball forward at times under Lampard, he looks totally lost now. Sibley seems to have lost the spark he had when he stepped up from the U23’s. Jozwiak looks to have a lot more to offer than we’re seeing at the moment. The more I watch, the more I’m convinced Cocu is simply a very poor attacking coach, and that’s part of the reason why we’re not scoring any goals. Waghorn has gone down 50% in performance under Cocu? 50%, really. Marriott given a new lease of life at Sheffield Wednesday, bring me up to speed on his performances there. The injured Sibley, still only 19 isn’t he?, has lost some spark. Most unusual that a youngster might have fluctuating form. Joswiak, new to the Country, hasn’t quite lived up to the YouTube video you watched? I think he has played more games for Poland than us since signing. Holmes was magic in about 3 games under Lampard, and might have had a couple of decent games the season after, but he really isn’t Championship standard. Been awful this year, perhaps suffering more than we know from the loss of a proper mate. It happens. Cocu lacks a good centre forward. He knew who he wanted, and if the general rumours are true, he will get his man in January. Mel didn’t have any financial headroom to get him in anyone else short term, other than agreeing (apparently under force) to bringing in trialist CKR on deadline day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernRam Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 16 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: We've not had the continuity we needed. Four years was right for the club, to bring about stability and a consistent strategy. If it's some kind of obstacle to Cocu being sacked now meaning he gets longer to bring about the Academy revolution at Derby, and see a team of our own lads storming the Championship and on into the Premier League, I'm all for it. It’s a beautiful dream you’re selling, but it’s just not true is it? Sibley, Bird and Whittaker have become bench warmers. Only 2 academy players in the first 11. Rock bottom of the league with the fewest wins and goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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