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Is a 4 year contract too long Mel


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3 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

If the compensation due on dismissal is 12 months salary then 3 or 4 years makes not a tittle of difference when he's only just over a year in.

Is that how it works? I don’t know, I always assumed it would be a percentage of remaining pay. In which case the length of contract would make a difference.

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51 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Holmes was good for far more than 3 games. ......... He’s massively lost his way recently, I’m sure in part to matters of the pitch

I am sure the loss of his friend has had a major impact.

In addition, I believe that Holmes has said that his injury was actually a broken leg/fracture and that may partly explain his struggle to get back. If you recall he tweaked a muscle and came off in his first game back. I don't think we should underestimate the strain on all players at the moment - for all clubs, not just ours. Ordinarily, I would be against 5 subs but you can understand the reasoning in the current circumstances.

I agree his best role/position is the ball carrier in central midfield but Knight has been fantastic in that role. IMHO the balance would not be right with them both in the team.

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45 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I don’t credit Rooney, I was just using his arrival as a reference point. I credit Cocu for that spell of form as I’ve said before, but it isn’t enough to justify his position now. Neither is that first half against Forest, it was better than some of what we’ve seen, but we still didn’t look to have that much threat from open play. Shinnie’s effort the only real clear cut chance we created. And that’s been the problem across the whole of Cocu’s reign, not just this season - we’ve got no threat in the final third.

FWIW I think Rooney has been awful, and his signing a disaster. I don’t want him as manager, and I’d terminate his contract as well as Cocu if I could. 

a disaster....?? are you in favour of the take over?

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52 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Is that how it works? I don’t know, I always assumed it would be a percentage of remaining pay. In which case the length of contract would make a difference.

There has been a whole range of speculation, so the reality is "nobody knows". We've had the full range from a "footballers" style where all the future salary that would have been earned over the remaining contract is payable to performance clauses that would mean ZERO payout - ie summary dismissal ?

we're bored obviously

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9 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

There has been a whole range of speculation, so the reality is "nobody knows". We've had the full range from a "footballers" style where all the future salary that would have been earned over the remaining contract is payable to performance clauses that would mean ZERO payout - ie summary dismissal ?

we're bored obviously

Rowettesque.

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It’s an interesting one. In the end we are talking about what is in effect a notice period for an employee
 

Even at relatively high levels in industry 12 months is about the limit. That said football is an unusual example so perhaps there is a reason for longer deals. I can’t see why anything more than 2 years pay on departure is anything other than generous. but it’s all about wants / needs / personalities and promises I suppose ... shrug of the shoulders emoji 

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1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

I am sure the loss of his friend has had a major impact.

In addition, I believe that Holmes has said that his injury was actually a broken leg/fracture and that may partly explain his struggle to get back. If you recall he tweaked a muscle and came off in his first game back. I don't think we should underestimate the strain on all players at the moment - for all clubs, not just ours. Ordinarily, I would be against 5 subs but you can understand the reasoning in the current circumstances.

I agree his best role/position is the ball carrier in central midfield but Knight has been fantastic in that role. IMHO the balance would not be right with them both in the team.

I think that’s right. And fitness allowing we have proper skilled cover with those two wanting what is effectively the same slot. 

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6 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

It's a really good question, Kash.

I'm certainly not 100% confident in Cocu, but I'm certainly not confident that replacing him and changing direction yet again will be good for the club. The confidence I do have is built around Cocu's history at PSV and the time it took to transform them into the dominant force in Dutch football again, which he did but not at first. It took a couple of years of developing the younger players and bringing them through, while on a four-year contract.

The adversity Cocu has faced at Derby has been astonishing. The Lawrence/Bennett/Huddlestone/Keogh incident beggared belief and we're still suffering in that Keogh was a very hard player to replace, especially with our obvious financial difficulties. Because of those difficulties Cocu is working with his hands tied behind his back, and we've had to  gamble. I am excited at seeing what the likes of Ibe and a fit Bielik can bring to our team in the coming months. Jozwiak looks a great buy. I think the sale of Lowe and the emergence of Buchanan and his elevation to the England U21 team give a glimpse of what is possible if we stick with Cocu and his ability to  bring on young players.

It has been depressing to watch at times, but it seems clear to me that Cocu is bringing in exciting players and I love the idea of a Dutch, total football, youth-led revolution at Derby.

But I'll stop there because it's partly hope and faith, I acknowledge. But there are a lot of games left and I would love to give Cocu a few more months, before we end this experiment where the potential rewards are so very high if we get it right. We do have a golden generation coming through at the club and we know Cocu is fundamentally committed to youth, and I fear all will be lost for the sake of a short-term fix if we get  rid of him.

Brilliant response, measured, thoughtful and exactly where my hope lies .. yes I have a happy clappers outlook but to replace Cocu with a same old same old just doesn’t fill me with delight for the long term. It isn’t fun at the moment and at times it is like a kick in the gut. All of us tend to spout some opinion or other at a seemingly daft decision by the manager but we really don’t know about individual players fitness, injury status and many other variables. I want us to stick at it with Cocu, I don’t think we will go down. Maybe we will scrape some results and inch forward but all the while I feel we have a chance to change culture and be a better “whole” after it. 

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4 hours ago, jono said:

Brilliant response, measured, thoughtful and exactly where my hope lies .. yes I have a happy clappers outlook but to replace Cocu with a same old same old just doesn’t fill me with delight for the long term. It isn’t fun at the moment and at times it is like a kick in the gut. All of us tend to spout some opinion or other at a seemingly daft decision by the manager but we really don’t know about individual players fitness, injury status and many other variables. I want us to stick at it with Cocu, I don’t think we will go down. Maybe we will scrape some results and inch forward but all the while I feel we have a chance to change culture and be a better “whole” after it. 

Thanks, Jono and of course I agree with everything you've said. My glass is normally 3/4 full so I also have a happy clapper's outlook. But in some ways it's rational. For me the potential, possible rewards if we stick with Cocu are much greater than if we bring in another journeyman manager to get us out of a short-term fix, so I still think it makes sense to keep Cocu.

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