How much time do we give Phil?

[Wolfie20]

8 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Cocu has the rest of the season for me, which obviously includes the next window. If Morris doesn’t give him that then he is a Bamford.

I am happy that this should be another ‘progress year’ as he starts blending in the players he has been involved with bringing to the club, and the ones he has identified from the Academy set-up. Ibe, Jozwiak, Lawrence, Waghorn, Bielik, Sibley, Te Wierek, Wisdom, Duncan and CKR were all missing from the starting 11 last night. I would expect us to end somewhere mid-to-upper table, perhaps like last season making a late effort for the playoffs.

REMEMBER. Cocu joined the club at a time when Morris made it pretty clear that he was not wanting to put more of his personal wealth in the club, seeking alternatively third party investment, he wanted the wage bill cut significantly (was it by 50%?) and that the first team should include 5 Academy products. The investment received from Dell is more likely to have been used to date to shore up the club’s finances, including covering deferred player wages, until the EFL (and Govt) come to making decisions that might offer some hope of sustainability to Championship clubs, and those lower in the tiers.  I doubt any of the Dell money has been allocated to Cocu for player recruitment, and that he had to generate the funds by wheeler dealing to operate in this window. He seems to have uncomplainingly selected Bogle and Lowe as the two ‘starlets’ to go, which would have been the two I would have let go too, and he looks to generally have spent his money wisely on a blend of youth and experience. What a great pity for him he couldn’t get Durson, but again has anyone heard him complain.

He has operated throughout his tenure with one hand tied behind his back, and at times his second hand has been nailed to his desk - Joinersgate, Wisdom Attack, etc.

Too many fans are overlooking what Cocu has had to put up with, and are comparing him unfavourably to the financial support that previous Managers were given.  This is a different time, and Cocu I think as a Manager has done well all things considered, coping with the injuries, blooding young players, dealing with off-pitch matters, and I think has been astute in the transfer market. He has identified from last season where we are weak, particularly in regards to flair, and now I hope he can get his full squad fit and available very soon to see what he can do, particularly when he has a mobile front 4 he can alternate.  Joswiak, Waghorn, Lawrence, Duncan, Whittaker, Ibe and Sibley all have a lot to offer and to improve our attacking threat.  He only had two of those options last night, and one of them probably only had 30 mins in the tank to give.

I despair at some of the comments on here saying 2 weeks or 2 more games. So bloody fickle are some. Get real, because if you want to replace Cocu who do you think you are going to get? As the club looks at the moment there probably isn’t any other decent Manager who would think objectively they could do better than Cocu has done so far.

Just read this and agree with every point made. 

[Tyler Durden]

20 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Just read this and agree with every point made. 

Yessir 

[Carnero]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yessir 

Arafat.

[JayRam1]

23 hours ago, Topram said:

Let him get a good run of games with Beliek Ibe Jozwaik Waghorn Lawrence back in 

Problem is you might not ever get them playing together due to injuries/ fitness etc, we can’t keep using the same excuses, you have to get the best out of what u have simple as that! We are literally averaging one shot on target each game, it’s not good enough. Every team in this championship is there for the taking and we ain’t managing to get more than one shot on target, it’s piss poor. Teams like Rotherham etc are looking better than us and your telling me they have better players than what we have now, no chance.

[Jourdan]

I think November and early December presents an opportunity for us to pick up.

QPR, Barnsley, Wycombe and Coventry at home and Middlesbrough and Millwall away are all games we have a decent chance of winning and games you would earmark as ones to get us back on track. The trouble is, the longer this run continues, the harder even those games start to become.

Will Cocu be here to lead the winter revival? I am really not sure. I find it more likely that it’ll be an opportunity for a new manager bounce.

I don’t understand people saying that he deserves a full season irrespective of what happens.

You would think they had been on the Moon for 20 years and had no understanding of the pressures of the Championship and how long managers typically last.

Reputations and projects get thrown out of the window if you continue losing games and can’t arrest a slide.

The next four games are looking tougher by the day, with Huddersfield and Forest picking up big, morale-boosting wins today, Bournemouth unbeaten so far this season, and Cardiff also unbeaten away from home.

If we were to lose the next four, we’d have lost 8 out of 9 games and we would have 12 defeats in our last 15 league games dating back to July.

Bear in mind we lost 16 league games out of 46 last season - so we would already be halfway to that total. Bear in mind we would have just 3 points from a possible 27 - potentially our worst start to a league season in living memory.

Remarkably, we would have fewer points after nine games than we did at the same stage during that season - just to underline how bad things could get!

At the end of the day, people can say give him time, but with each defeat, it becomes the kind of slump that looks harder and harder to reverse and harder and harder for Mel to ignore.

Let’s not forget this is the same Mel who twice sacked a manager who finished 3rd, 8th and turned around a season that many thought was heading towards relegation to League One. This is the same Mel who sacked a manager who was 5th in January.

Mel may have changed. Mel may have learnt some lessons. Mel might have grown more patient. But even Mel 2.0 will know that the current run we’re on is entering the territory of being indefensible.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

5 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I think November and early December presents an opportunity for us to pick up.

QPR, Barnsley, Wycombe and Coventry at home and Middlesbrough and Millwall away are all games we have a decent chance of winning and games you would earmark as ones to get us back on track. The trouble is, the longer this run continues, the harder even those games start to become.

Will Cocu be here to lead the winter revival? I am really not sure. I find it more likely that it’ll be an opportunity for a new manager bounce.

I don’t understand people saying that he deserves a full season irrespective of what happens.

You would think they had been on the Moon for 20 years and had no understanding of the pressures of the Championship and how long managers typically last.

Reputations and projects get thrown out of the window if you continue losing games and can’t arrest a slide.

The next four games are looking tougher by the day, with Huddersfield and Forest picking up big, morale-boosting wins today, Bournemouth unbeaten so far this season, and Cardiff also unbeaten away from home.

If we were to lose the next four, we’d have lost 8 out of 9 games and we would have 12 defeats in our last 15 league games dating back to July.

Bear in mind we lost 16 league games out of 46 last season - so we would already be halfway to that total. Bear in mind we would have just 3 points from a possible 27 - potentially our worst start to a league season in living memory.

Remarkably, we would have fewer points after nine games than we did at the same stage during that season - just to underline how bad things could get!

At the end of the day, people can say give him time, but with each defeat, it becomes the kind of slump that looks harder and harder to reverse and harder and harder for Mel to ignore.

Let’s not forget this is the same Mel who twice sacked a manager who finished 3rd, 8th and turned around a season that many thought was heading towards relegation to League One. This is the same Mel who sacked a manager who was 5th in January.

Mel may have changed. Mel may have learnt some lessons. Mel might have grown more patient. But even Mel 2.0 will know that the current run we’re on is entering the territory of being indefensible.

A well crafted piece there jourdan.

I do suspect that Mel's patience is partly born of not wishing to invest anymore in managers/players than he has to whilst trying to attract a new owner/investor.

If the club hurtles too close to relegation however,his patience would be tested.

Again,let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[Carnero]

9 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

A well crafted piece there jourdan.

Except that it assumes 4 defeats out of the next 4 games.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Just now, Carnero said:

Except that it assumes 4 defeats out of the next 4 games.

Still well put though....

And that would be a fair expectation given our form over the last 13 matches or so.

We have to hope that it's all turned around by the return of the injured players and our new guys gelling into an effective force.

 

 

[Jourdan]

3 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Except that it assumes 4 defeats out of the next 4 games.

I am not assuming anything.

We could win on Tuesday and then on Friday and look revitalised all of a sudden. Recent evidence suggests not but let’s see.

My point about ‘what if we lose the next four games?’ is more in response to the idea that we have to give him time whatever happens.

If we give him time whatever may be, it could have very painful consequences for one and all if this particular run continues.

Realistically, only results can be traded for time.

[Carnero]

3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Still well put though....

And that would be a fair expectation given our form over the last 13 matches or so.

We have to hope that it's all turned around by the return of the injured players and our new guys gelling into an effective force.

 

 

You would hope that Joswiak & Lawrence start the next game and we might look more of an attacking threat. I agree that all the fixtures look tough at the moment but form is a fickle mistress.

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Because we'll be comfortably mid-table 10 games from now.

Quote me, @me, screenshot me...

I tend to agree. New manager bounce is usually worth a few extra points.

[Justa]

23 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Indeed, patience needed. If it is still painful to watch and the results poor then maybe need to think again at Christmas. But let’s see how the team does when we are at full strength.

What team ever is able to play a full strength team ?

Some players will come back but at the same time others will get injured !

 

[Carnero]

2 minutes ago, Justa said:

What team ever is able to play a full strength team ?

Some players will come back but at the same time others will get injured !

 

All in one position group is rare.

[DCFC Kicks]

• The manager first comes in and say's we're going to play 4-3-3 and so are all the age groups so they can progress to the first team easier. This completely fails and is abandoned early on. 
• Then switches to a more defensive 4-2-3-1, a standard Championship formation, and struggle for the rest of the season and only improved slightly thanks to the initial bounce of Rooney's arrival. 
• Start this season with the same 4-2-3-1 and somehow become drastically worse. Switch to an even more defensive 5-4-1/3-4-3 (possibly permanently). While it's to early to say if this formation has failed or not, it certainly appears it's not going to be very entertaining to watch.

It says a lot that we've changed so much from the original vision for the club when he joined. He's been at the club a year now and is still clearly struggling to understand English football. I understand giving some leeway with the off field incidents but has there been any overall improvement? If it's not happened in a year will it happen at all? The Blackburn was the worst I've seen in memory and exposed basic tactical ineptitude.

Also the story that emerged last week of senior players having a meeting with Phil and "persuading" him to change tactics for the Norwich game is extremely concerning.

[RamNut]

It will certainly help not having fans in the stadium. The toxic atmosphere generated by an angry crowd can destroy players and end managerial careers. The Derby fan base will soon turn on their chosen scape goats.

it wasn’t that long ago that the vast majority were only too willing to declare their unequivocal support. Better than frank. Barcelona legend. Doing a superb job etc etc. 
Five games into the new season and that support is in melt down.

I have been frustrated by some things.

E.g. By the chopping and changing. The team selection v Forest in the cup last year. The time it took to get Sibley and knight into the same line up. The sidewards and backwards passing. The rapid re-integration of Lawrence after pubgate. The apparent lack of charisma and motivational skills. the seeming inability to make a decision. The endless tinkerIng etc etc.

cocu is a nice guy, no doubt about it. his manners are exemplary. His wife will be lovely. His house will be tidy. He will be a loyal friend and colleague. But niceness counts for nothing in the cut throat world of football management. I hope he isn’t fooled by the recent platitudes. His chairman is not noted for his patience. And the yes men will be only too ready to endorse whatever move the chairman makes, be it bold, intelligent or stupid. 

the fact is that this club is not a big draw. We are in trouble with the league and struggling with ffp. We have few senior pros that we can rely on to match the efforts of a 19 year old rookie for energy, graft, commitment, bravery and skill. 
We have just emerged from another transfer window licking our wounds. we play in a league that is competitive on the pitch, and under funded off it. I’m not sure which high achiever people think will want to run barefoot over broken glass to take up the reins here. It’s noticeable that frank has said almost nothing since departing. Nothing along the lines of great club, great fans, great chairman. Nothing. 

We are trying to build a team of academy players, waifs and strays on a limited budget. We have no god given right to beat anyone - least of all two teams from the premiership rolling in money and assets transferred In from abroad. 
All of our strikers are out bar one, and the defence only got introduced to each other a month ago.

We all have to have a bit of patience. Even me.

It’s early days. There is no white knight standing by.

let the bloke do his job. 

 

[Chris_Martin]

38 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

Also the story that emerged last week of senior players having a meeting with Phil and "persuading" him to change tactics for the Norwich game is extremely concerning.

 

Yes it sure is concerning. The fact that Rooney didn't even deny this happened in his interview leads me to believe it true.

if the players dont even believe in Cocu then how on earth is it ever going to work.

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

1 minute ago, Chris_Martin said:

 

Yes it sure is concerning. The fact that Rooney didn't even deny this happened in his interview leads me to believe it true.

if the players dont even believe in Cocu then how on earth is it ever going to work.

He practically confirmed it didn’t he?

[RamNut]

5 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

 

Yes it sure is concerning. The fact that Rooney didn't even deny this happened in his interview leads me to believe it true.

if the players dont even believe in Cocu then how on earth is it ever going to work.

Maybe one of them just found himself transferred out to Sheffield Wednesday?

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

11 minutes ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said:

He practically confirmed it didn’t he?

Jeez,really?

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, DCFClks said:

• Also the story that emerged last week of senior players having a meeting with Phil and "persuading" him to change tactics for the Norwich game is extremely concerning.

Was it like the Godfather. The players gave Phil an offer he couldn't refuse.