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How much time do we give Phil?


Chris_Martin

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47 minutes ago, RamNut said:

We are trying to build a team of academy players, waifs and strays on a limited budget. We have no god given right to beat anyone - least of all two teams from the premiership rolling in money and assets transferred In from abroad. 
All of our strikers are out bar one, and the defence only got introduced to each other a month ago.

We all have to have a bit of patience. Even me.

It’s early days. There is no white knight standing by.

let the bloke do his job. 

 

I understand having patience but when do the "early days" end? he's been here a year. Wouldn't you expect to see at least a small amount of improvement and a more settled playing style in that time?

I also don't think the squad is that bad, definitely not as bad as where we are in the league currently. We still have some very good players at this level and just signed a full Polish international. Yes a lot of those players are out at the moment but they're weren't last season when we were still struggling. 

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13 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

I understand having patience but when do the "early days" end? he's been here a year. Wouldn't you expect to see at least a small amount of improvement and a more settled playing style in that time?

I also don't think the squad is that bad, definitely not as bad as where we are in the league currently. We still have some very good players at this level and just signed a full Polish international. Yes a lot of those players are out at the moment but they're weren't last season when we were still struggling. 

Rookie error. You've just allowed your own argument to be undermined by the posters who disagree with you. You can't say that we have some very good players in one breath then the next say admittedly they're all out injured in the next. Will just get leapt on. Better to say with the squad we have Cocu should be getting more out of the players he has at his disposal. I'm here all night.

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13 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Rookie error. You've just allowed your own argument to be undermined by the posters who disagree with you. You can't say that we have some very good players in one breath then the next say admittedly they're all out injured in the next. Will just get leapt on. Better to say with the squad we have Cocu should be getting more out of the players he has at his disposal. I'm here all night.

I'm just annoyed with everyone assuming that when certain players are back everything will be fine. Like Phil has never had these players available before. He has, and when they were playing we were still terrible 

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1 minute ago, DCFClks said:

I'm just annoyed with everyone assuming that when certain players are back everything will be fine. Like Phil has never had these players available before. He has, and when they were playing we were still terrible 

You're preaching to the converted am afraid. Not me that needs convincing.

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1 hour ago, DCFClks said:

I understand having patience but when do the "early days" end? he's been here a year. Wouldn't you expect to see at least a small amount of improvement and a more settled playing style in that time?

I also don't think the squad is that bad, definitely not as bad as where we are in the league currently. We still have some very good players at this level and just signed a full Polish international. Yes a lot of those players are out at the moment but they're weren't last season when we were still struggling. 

Last season is irrelevant now.

we have a new keeper

we sold both full backs

our other centre back from last season is still recovering from being  stabbed in the arse and head

we lost our no9

our 32 red sponsored superstar has mobility issues and may now have to self-isolate for 14 days

most of the other attacking players are either injured or unfit.

we couldn’t afford to buy a 28 year old striker from the German second division. 

The manager‘s authority  is being undermined by stories being planted in the press.

 

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6 hours ago, RamNut said:

Maybe one of them just found himself transferred out to Sheffield Wednesday?

Trouble is, if this rumour is true - no matter your point of view on Cocu - it's hard to see it ending any other way than in tears for him.  These days, players wield the power and if they don't want to play to the manager's tactics, they won't.  The rot then sets in and it undermines the Manager's authority.  This is typically extremeny hard to reverse, without a new man at the helm.  Time will tell, I guess.......

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6 hours ago, DCFClks said:

I'm just annoyed with everyone assuming that when certain players are back everything will be fine. Like Phil has never had these players available before. He has, and when they were playing we were still terrible 

We were on the verge of a top 6 spot last season, with the best record in the league over a 16 game stretch since the halfway point, before Lawrence got sent off & Waghorn sent off/injured.

People are re-writing history somewhat.

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We know we have limited players to pick from.

the question is.....would sacking the manager help?

the wazza-Gregory story might have been denied (sort of) but it’s just the sort of bat poo crazy thing we’d do. 
 

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9 hours ago, DCFClks said:
  • The manager first comes in and say's we're going to play 4-3-3 and so are all the age groups so they can progress to the first team easier. This completely fails and is abandoned early on. 
  • Then switches to a more defensive 4-2-3-1, a standard Championship formation, and struggle for the rest of the season and only improved slightly thanks to the initial bounce of Rooney's arrival. 
  • Start this season with the same 4-2-3-1 and somehow become drastically worse. Switch to an even more defensive 5-4-1/3-4-3 (possibly permanently). While it's to early to say if this formation has failed or not, it certainly appears it's not going to be very entertaining to watch.

It says a lot that we've changed so much from the original vision for the club when he joined. He's been at the club a year now and is still clearly struggling to understand English football. I understand giving some leeway with the off field incidents but has there been any overall improvement? If it's not happened in a year will it happen at all? The Blackburn was the worst I've seen in memory and exposed basic tactical ineptitude.

Also the story that emerged last week of senior players having a meeting with Phil and "persuading" him to change tactics for the Norwich game is extremely concerning.

That is the real point. Cocu looks confused and perplexed on the touch line as if he can’t understand why his creation isn’t working. It’s becoming as painful to watch him as it is to watch the team. 
I’m a huge admirer of Mel but the one question he seems to neglected to have asked a whole series of appointed managers at interview is “Will your football be good to watch and will it be successful?

And yes, the 2 things do go together. 

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7 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Once the injured players return I think we will return to 4-3-3.

Byrne and Buchanan, plus probably Clarke and Davies. I think Evans is a liability.

Davies is warrior but is too slow in a four so it is to be hoped that MTW gets his act together.

I think we need to wait for Bielik to come back to shield the defence before we convert back to 4 at the back...

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19 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

That is the real point. Cocu looks confused and perplexed on the touch line as if he can’t understand why his creation isn’t working. It’s becoming as painful to watch him as it is to watch the team. 
I’m a huge admirer of Mel but the one question he seems to neglected to have asked a whole series of appointed managers at interview is “Will your football be good to watch and will it be successful?

And yes, the 2 things do go together. 

Well the 2 sort of haven’t. We had great football under Steve and George but didn’t go up and pretty unattractive football under Quasi and did....would be good to have both mind...

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1 hour ago, Carnero said:

We were on the verge of a top 6 spot last season, with the best record in the league over a 16 game stretch since the halfway point, before Lawrence got sent off & Waghorn sent off/injured.

People are re-writing history somewhat.

Martin was pivotal In that run, have we we’ve replaced him with someone suitable?  the jury is out on that one. We also have Sibley break on the scene  no one knew about him, now they do and he hasn’t been able to achieve the same standards (not that it’s expected of him at his age he’s going to be inconsistent). 

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9 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

Yes it sure is concerning. The fact that Rooney didn't even deny this happened in his interview leads me to believe it true.

I thought he denied the 'change of tactics' thing, but readily admitted that there was a meeting of players and management (in the pre-match Sky interview).

Is it in this interview?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/12104749/wayne-rooney-coaching-free-kicks-and-guiding-youngsters

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