How much time do we give Phil?

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, glyn1957 said:

Any manager that lets his team be caught by a team starting on minus twelve in possibly eight games should be asked .

questions

Who played Terry in the Likely Lads?

What is the capital of Sri Lanka?

Which film has won the most oscars?

How many has he got to get right ?

[EraniosSocks]

Question is who would replace him ? 
 

Liam Rosenior? Lee Johnson, Paul Simpson ? 

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

Just now, EraniosSocks said:

Question is who would replace him ? 
 

Liam Rosenior? Lee Johnson, Paul Simpson ? 

John Gregory obviously 

[Sparkle]

It’s a difficult time in many ways 

no home fans to help the team which clearly makes a difference 

time similar with clough when we had to move on expensive players and replace them with cheaper options and youth 

injuries don’t help either 

we are still searching for a correct formula team wise

marshall - improvement 

bryne - very decent 

jozwiak - wait and see 

Ibe - not sure what we will get but a gamble never the less 

centre forward - well we couldn’t afford what we want and need so it’s waghorn and the pensioners plus youngsters to break through - not a disaster 

we need to be patient whilst we try not to let a load of goals in currently before we start making more chances and actually take them

[Sith Happens]

Just now, EraniosSocks said:

Question is who would replace him ? 
 

Liam Rosenior? Lee Johnson, Paul Simpson ? 

I'll settle for no less than pochettino. ?

[angieram]

9 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said:

Every group has its Eeyores.

Reading this forum makes me think that Derby has more than most. 

But I think probably every club feels like that. Ever sat with the home fans at White Hart Lane? Terrible moaners.

I think that the sheer persistence and repetitiveness of the negative posters is currently having a depressing effect on the forum, so that it appears that there are a lot more people against Cocu than the reality. Even when someone tries to start a more balanced thread the same posters pile in to try and quickly smother any murmurings of hope!

I really can't be bothered to keep debating the same points over and over, which leads me to post less and gloss over most threads. I'm fairly certain that I am not alone in this and @Coconut sums up the situation perfectly for me.

Given the financial situation and current injuries I would like to see posters take a more realistic view for the season, maybe look for a few positives or offer more constructive solutions; things won't seem so bad then.

And there will be plenty of time to say "I told you so" to the rest of us later when/if things don't improve. 

[glyn1957]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Who played Terry in the Likely Lads?

What is the capital of Sri Lanka?

Which film has won the most oscars?

How many has he got to get right ?

Maybe playing just a little bit of attacking football would be a great conversation starter

[EraniosSocks]

2 minutes ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said:

John Gregory obviously 

I’d go in to a state of depression 

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

I think that the sheer persistence and repetitiveness of the negative posters is currently having a depressing effect on the forum, so that it appears that there are a lot more people against Cocu than the reality. Even when someone tries to start a more balanced thread the same posters pile in to try and quickly smother any murmurings of hope!

I really can't be bothered to keep debating the same points over and over, which leads me to post less and gloss over most threads. I'm fairly certain that I am not alone in this and @Coconut sums up the situation perfectly for me.

Given the financial situation and current injuries I would like to see posters take a more realistic view for the season, maybe look for a few positives or offer more constructive solutions; things won't seem so bad then.

And there will be plenty of time to say "I told you so" to the rest of us later when/if things don't improve. 

Exactly ?

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, glyn1957 said:

Maybe playing just a little bit of attacking football would be a great conversation starter

That’s not a question, keep up ?

[AutoWindscreens]

6 minutes ago, angieram said:

I think that the sheer persistence and repetitiveness of the negative posters is currently having a depressing effect on the forum, so that it appears that there are a lot more people against Cocu than the reality. Even when someone tries to start a more balanced thread the same posters pile in to try and quickly smother any murmurings of hope!

I really can't be bothered to keep debating the same points over and over, which leads me to post less and gloss over most threads. I'm fairly certain that I am not alone in this and @Coconut sums up the situation perfectly for me.

Given the financial situation and current injuries I would like to see posters take a more realistic view for the season, maybe look for a few positives or offer more constructive solutions; things won't seem so bad then.

And there will be plenty of time to say "I told you so" to the rest of us later when/if things don't improve. 

That's made me feel better already! ?

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

Isnt this what Cocu had all of last season for?

Yes

A tenth place finish put in some decent foundations to build on for the future.

The idea was to take those foundations, improve what we could structurally and add a bit more flair to them. Signing players like Jozwiak & Ibe was the flair, Marshall & Byrne the structure. Alongside this there were plans afoot to try and play a little higher up the pitch and with a higher tempo & intensity, but that would depend on having the suitable materials available for this to be a success.

Foundations are only as strong as the material they're made from though; when that material is as fallable as human beings (and you can't afford sutable backups) they can get smashed up pretty easily, without it being the fault of the person who laid them (the foundations, not the players, I should imagine that's the responsibility of their WAGS... or HABS?)

Martin's gone (against Cocu's wishes and not replaced), Rooney's developed dry rot, Waghorn & Lawrence have rising damp. A couple of our new foundations have fit into place nicely (1 needs a lot more welding into shape, a bit more te wierik shall we say) but the flair pieces we had last season are unavailable and the new ones are still in the factory being made, ready in maybe another 2-3 weeks (who knows?)

We tried to put in place a bit more of the 'fun' of the project but it quickly became quite apparent that there was still work to be done on securing our gates, which is what we're doing now.

We've pretty much had to start again in some ways. Is it really any wonder we've been unable to build anything 'better' while we're still papering over the cracks?

I think that's enough terrbile building analogies for one day!

[Jourdan]

Cocu has had 51 league games in charge during his tenure.

For two thirds of that time, the results have been poor or mediocre, we have looked like a bottom six side, and the football has been uninspiring to watch.

Have there been difficult circumstances? Absolutely. Has Cocu had terrible luck? Totally.

But no-one can escape the cold reality of results, especially in the Championship where the average tenure of a manager is only slightly over 12 months if I recall.

As a comparison, I am a teacher. Let’s say I move to Spain and start a new job after being successful working in other countries.

I’ve been in sunny Madrid for 14 months and my boss is reviewing my work and sees that 66% of my students are unsatisfied with me as their teacher. Do I keep my job? Highly unlikely, because student satisfaction is important to my boss.

Or perhaps a different scenario, my boss is reviewing my work and sees that 66% of my students are failing. Do I keep my job? Highly unlikely, because the success of my students is important to my boss.

I come to my boss and explain away the circumstances and how everything is affecting my work. I am still adapting to life in Spain. I am struggling with the culture. I am struggling with the language. I have no friends. My girlfriend left me. My landlord evicted me. My family never visits me. I seriously injured myself while watering the plants. So many problems.

Will my boss have sympathy for the fact that I am a nice guy and a hard worker? Yes. Will my boss have sympathy for the problems and misfortune I am facing? Yes. Will my boss keep in mind the 33% of successful and happy students I have? Yes.

Will it be enough to keep me in my job? Highly unlikely. My boss will simply find another teacher, but one who is comfortable with life in Spain, who gets the culture, who speaks the language, who has a social life, who has a stable private life and irrespective of that, can get the job done.

Whether it’s sport, education, finance, marketing, whatever field you are in, you need results to keep people happy and onside. 

Do we think Mel will be sympathetic if we lose the next two? What about the next four?

We are all desperate for things to improve. We all want to see winning football. We all want to see entertaining football.

But if you see things aren’t working, there always comes a point where you have to draw a line under things and say enough is enough.

For some of you, it’s Christmas. For others, it’s next May. For others, it was December 2019.

I am just not sure Mel can afford to be patient as some of you believe he can.

[Curtains]

As long has he wants. 
 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

As long has he wants. 
 

 

That’s the answer....he puts his boots on and plays ?

[RamNut]

When everyone is fit, on paper we have a decent squad but the recent absentees are highlighted in bold

there are some gaps. Especially in the vital no9 position. 
he has to carry you know who, and at present the defence needs Davies to organise the troops.

But that is what he is given to work with.

 

                  marshall

byrne   Evans   Clarke    Buchanan

            Knight     Bielik

jozwiak        Sibley         Lawrence

                 Waghorn

                            Roos

Wisdom    Te wierik.    Davies    Forsyth

                 Bird     Shinnie

holmes             Rooney                Ibe

                       Whittaker 

Just chill out.

 

 

 

 

[May Contain Nuts]

34 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Cocu has had 51 league games in charge during his tenure.

For two thirds of that time, the results have been poor or mediocre, we have looked like a bottom six side, and the football has been uninspiring to watch.

Have there been difficult circumstances? Absolutely. Has Cocu had terrible luck? Totally.

But no-one can escape the cold reality of results, especially in the Championship where the average tenure of a manager is only slightly over 12 months if I recall.

As a comparison, I am a teacher. Let’s say I move to Spain and start a new job after being successful working in other countries.

I’ve been in sunny Madrid for 14 months and my boss is reviewing my work and sees that 66% of my students are unsatisfied with me as their teacher. Do I keep my job? Highly unlikely, because student satisfaction is important to my boss.

Or perhaps a different scenario, my boss is reviewing my work and sees that 66% of my students are failing. Do I keep my job? Highly unlikely, because the success of my students is important to my boss.

I come to my boss and explain away the circumstances and how everything is affecting my work. I am still adapting to life in Spain. I am struggling with the culture. I am struggling with the language. I have no friends. My girlfriend left me. My landlord evicted me. My family never visits me. I seriously injured myself while watering the plants. So many problems.

Will my boss have sympathy for the fact that I am a nice guy and a hard worker? Yes. Will my boss have sympathy for the problems and misfortune I am facing? Yes. Will my boss keep in mind the 33% of successful and happy students I have? Yes.

Will it be enough to keep me in my job? Highly unlikely. My boss will simply find another teacher, but one who is comfortable with life in Spain, who gets the culture, who speaks the language, who has a social life, who has a stable private life and irrespective of that, can get the job done.

Whether it’s sport, education, finance, marketing, whatever field you are in, you need results to keep people happy and onside. 

Do we think Mel will be sympathetic if we lose the next two? What about the next four?

We are all desperate for things to improve. We all want to see winning football. We all want to see entertaining football.

But if you see things aren’t working, there always comes a point where you have to draw a line under things and say enough is enough.

For some of you, it’s Christmas. For others, it’s next May. For others, it was December 2019.

I am just not sure Mel can afford to be patient as some of you believe he can.

An enjoyable post (I don't have to agree with posts to like them), but it falls down on one key premise

Cocu isn't blaming his personal life, adapting to a new country etc on his performance, nor are the vast majority of posters backing him against criticism for the job he's done.

If you'd have talked about your working conditions, the group of students you took on, the expectations of your manager against your chances of success it would be more relevant.

If you moved to your new school and found out on your first lesson that half of the computers didn't turn on, there weren't enough textbooks to go round, 2/3 of your students had been predicted failing grades,your star pupil then transferred to another school (plummeting your classes average to below the required levels of performance) but then you're judged as if all of the above was merely consequential to your chances, you'd be pretty pissed off!

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, Coconut said:

An enjoyable post (I don't have to agree with posts to like them), but it falls down on one key premise

Cocu isn't blaming his personal life, adapting to a new country etc on his performance, nor are the vast majority of posters backing him against criticism for the job he's done.

If you'd have talked about your working conditions, the group of students you took on, the expectations of your manager against your chances of success it would be more relevant.

If you moved to your new school and found out on your first lesson that half of the computers didn't turn on, there weren't enough textbooks to go round, 2/3 of your students had been predicted failing grades and your star pupil transferred to another school, plummeting your classes average to below the required levels of performance, but were judged as if all of the above was merely consequential to your chances, you'd be pretty pissed off!

 

 

Very good ?

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, Coconut said:

Sheff Weds' results should have absolutely no bearing on discussions about Derby County or decisons made.

It's totally irrelevant.

You might as well say that is Sheff Weds finish the season in the play-offs every team from 7th-24th should immediately sack their manager.

You pick and choose what should be relevant to your own arguments if it serves your purpose. It's like trying to herd cats. You selectively choose what you wish to include if it furthers your agenda then selectively choose what to exclude if it doesn't back up your own argument.

This transcends the whole argument, it could be about how many atoms there are on the head of a pin or whatever.  Then you polarise the whole debate and choose to pigeonhole posters who disagree with your opinion into Cocu out advocates.

I like having a debate with anyone about anything but if salient points on whatever the debate is are being deliberately ignored than it makes the whole process pointless and is leading to a lot of the friction on here. 

 

[May Contain Nuts]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

You pick and choose what should be relevant to your own arguments if it serves your purpose. It's like trying to herd cats. You selectively choose what you wish to include if it furthers your agenda then selectively choose what to exclude if it doesn't back up your own argument.

This transcends the whole argument, it could be about how many atoms there are on the head of a pin or whatever.  Then you polarise the whole debate and choose to pigeonhole posters who disagree with your opinion into Cocu out advocates.

I like having a debate with anyone about anything but if salient points on whatever the debate is are being deliberately ignored than it makes the whole process pointless and is leading to a lot of the friction on here. 

 

The sheer irony of it all, eh?

I don't have an agenda, merely saying how I see it.

In my opinion Sheff Weds' results can't be used to back up anyone's opinion, one way or the other.

They're an entirely separate entity to us. Having the points deducted hasn't really had any impact on the team they can put out, as far as I know.

If you start doing so to judge Derby County you have to judge others by the same measure.