Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Cocu has had more than 3 or 4 games. Read the post Roy Mac....my question was if we sack Cocu and carry on the merry go round, the managerial circus and Cook is put in charge but loses his first 4 games will there be calls for him to go? When does it stop? We have chopped and changed Managers over the 13 seasons we have been stuck in the Championship but it has got us nowhere has it. Cocu has been given the job, the massive job of overhauling the squad and bringing through youth. Massive job that will take time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I really hope so..I'm not moaning because I want him to go,I want him to show he can do it and then actually start to achieve. When I say he's probably only got a few games to do so,it's because I genuinely worry that his job is on the line. We need to show more than we are and I don't mean just trying hard,that should be non negotiable,I mean showing big improvements in performance and attacking intent. Yeah, I think you've been pretty fair with him on the whole. Blackburn was unacceptable - I was scathing on here about that & we all wanted an improvement. He's then gone to a different formation to try & shore up the leaky defence - the problem is we're now very short going forward. I genuinely think the change was a good call bearing in mind the limitations we have going forward. (i.e. just don't get beat) Take yesterday. Love Knight to bits & Holmes always tries but if that's the best we can do on the flanks, we're not going to break down teams. Holmes just looked totally ponderous in the final 3rd & Knight was rarely able to get any space or worry them with incisiveness. Looks likely Lawrence & Jozwiak will be unleashed v Huddersfield & am confident that attacking menace allied to the new found defensive strength, will start getting us results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hathersage Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 I have listened to everyone and I truly don't like sacking managers, but in truth (even allowing for the tribulations of the last 12 months) I don't think Cocu will EVER achieve anything in this league. He just appears so intransigent in his beliefs! Yesterday for goodness sake, playing 5 at the back at 2 defensive midfielders was I believe just inexcusable. Allied to the fact he persists in playing Rooney up front as a target man. We never get players in the box, it's obvious that they are told not to over commit, so I am afraid in my mind he needs to go. If you look at our squad we have enough good players to mount a serious challenge on the top 6 and with the additions maybe more. The only serious shortcoming does appear to be a centre forward with some physicality who can hold the ball up, and get on the end of crosses. Watford were there for the taking yesterday but our manager and his ridiculous ideologies are causing self inflicted issues. Please Mel, can you start looking at alternatives, as I believe we are capable of soo much more with the squad we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: but loses his first 4 games will there be calls for him to go? When does it stop? It's stopped for over a season. That was my point. It's not been 3 or 4 games and calls for the manager to go - you are twisting circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Massive job that will take time ? So we are lead to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: So we are lead to believe. Let me keep it simple Roy Mac, not sure if you are deliberately missing the point that I make ? The question is if we sack Cocu and replace him with Cook and then Cook loses his first 4 games how long will you give him to turn things around? It is not a difficult question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: and then Cook loses his first 4 games how long will you give him to turn things around? It is not a difficult question ? More than 4 games; as long as it looks like he knows what he's doing, a season...? It's not the point. You are using short-termism against fans where it is not appropriate. Many think that Cocu's season+ is long enough for them to judge. NOT 3 or 4 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 If Mel is behind the long term plan of letting the youngsters learn and grow to build long term sustainable success which everything at the moment seems to indicate he is, then I would stick with Cocu for the whole season as long as we stay clear of trouble and give him the start of next season when really we need to be looking likely to threaten the league. If we’re still struggling at that point then we need to make a change. The positive will be the club should be in much better financial health by that point. We haven’t got money to throw at this, I don’t think our squad right now is one of the six best in the league, so unless someone else is going to come in and continue the long term build then there would be no point in changing, unless we are fundamentally at risk of being relegated which right now it is way too early to make that call. That’s my view, I expect many will disagree. However if we continue to lose games in the next few weeks he could be gone by Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: More than 4 games; as long as it looks like he knows what he's doing, a season...? It's not the point. You are using short-termism against fans where it is not appropriate. Many think that Cocu's season+ is long enough for them to judge. NOT 3 or 4 games. Me using short-termism ? Me the one who doesn’t want to sack our Manager every 5 minutes ? Quote of the year Roy Mac, that did make me larf ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyram59 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 I would give him till the end of December no improvement then he as to go, because if he stays and carries on playing that style of football we will be going out of the championship to league 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Me using short-termism ? Me the one who doesn’t want to sack our Manager every 5 minutes ? Quote of the year Roy Mac, that did make me larf ? It's not about me. It's about you mis-using the second standard whip to beat fans who want a manager gone, 'will you only give the next one ...'. Because you couldn't use the first one which is 'who would you have as manager then'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: It's not about me. It's about you mis-using the second standard whip to beat fans who want a manager gone, 'will you only give the next one ...'. Because you couldn't use the first one which is 'who would you have as manager then'! When does the circus stop Roy Mac? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Me using short-termism ? Me the one who doesn’t want to sack our Manager every 5 minutes ? Quote of the year Roy Mac, that did make me larf ? I can see exactly the point being made. It's not just this season the total malaise has manifested itself from the final quarter of last season. The judgment isn't and shouldn't be made in isolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: When does the circus stop Roy Mac? When the clowns leave? ? Mel is the circus master, ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: I can see exactly the point being made. It's not just this season the total malaise has manifested itself from the final quarter of last season. The judgment isn't and shouldn't be made in isolation. 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: When the clowns leave? ? Mel is the circus master, ask him. I think the hurt you are still feeling over Coldplay is clouding your judgement Roy Mac ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 40 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: More than 4 games; as long as it looks like he knows what he's doing, a season...? It's not the point. You are using short-termism against fans where it is not appropriate. Many think that Cocu's season+ is long enough for them to judge. NOT 3 or 4 games. Do you think an insane season like the one we had last year, plus a few games this season with all of our key attackers injured allows us to make a fair assessment of our manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 21st in the division now and below the treetards who won this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 hours ago, i-Ram said: Cocu has the rest of the season for me, which obviously includes the next window. If Morris doesn’t give him that then he is a Bamford. I am happy that this should be another ‘progress year’ as he starts blending in the players he has been involved with bringing to the club, and the ones he has identified from the Academy set-up. Ibe, Jozwiak, Lawrence, Waghorn, Bielik, Sibley, Te Wierek, Wisdom, Duncan and CKR were all missing from the starting 11 last night. I would expect us to end somewhere mid-to-upper table, perhaps like last season making a late effort for the playoffs. REMEMBER. Cocu joined the club at a time when Morris made it pretty clear that he was not wanting to put more of his personal wealth in the club, seeking alternatively third party investment, he wanted the wage bill cut significantly (was it by 50%?) and that the first team should include 5 Academy products. The investment received from Dell is more likely to have been used to date to shore up the club’s finances, including covering deferred player wages, until the EFL (and Govt) come to making decisions that might offer some hope of sustainability to Championship clubs, and those lower in the tiers. I doubt any of the Dell money has been allocated to Cocu for player recruitment, and that he had to generate the funds by wheeler dealing to operate in this window. He seems to have uncomplainingly selected Bogle and Lowe as the two ‘starlets’ to go, which would have been the two I would have let go too, and he looks to generally have spent his money wisely on a blend of youth and experience. What a great pity for him he couldn’t get Durson, but again has anyone heard him complain. He has operated throughout his tenure with one hand tied behind his back, and at times his second hand has been nailed to his desk - Joinersgate, Wisdom Attack, etc. Too many fans are overlooking what Cocu has had to put up with, and are comparing him unfavourably to the financial support that previous Managers were given. This is a different time, and Cocu I think as a Manager has done well all things considered, coping with the injuries, blooding young players, dealing with off-pitch matters, and I think has been astute in the transfer market. He has identified from last season where we are weak, particularly in regards to flair, and now I hope he can get his full squad fit and available very soon to see what he can do, particularly when he has a mobile front 4 he can alternate. Joswiak, Waghorn, Lawrence, Duncan, Whittaker, Ibe and Sibley all have a lot to offer and to improve our attacking threat. He only had two of those options last night, and one of them probably only had 30 mins in the tank to give. I despair at some of the comments on here saying 2 weeks or 2 more games. So bloody fickle are some. Get real, because if you want to replace Cocu who do you think you are going to get? As the club looks at the moment there probably isn’t any other decent Manager who would think objectively they could do better than Cocu has done so far. Post of the year... Take a bow Mr i-ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, lrm14 said: Do you think an insane season like the one we had last year, plus a few games this season with all of our key attackers injured allows us to make a fair assessment of our manager? Yea, sure does. Then when the new one comes in and struggles we can replace him at Christmas....you know it makes sense Rodney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: 21st in the division now and below the treetards who won this afternoon. Hard to pay attention to the league table until at least 10 matches in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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