Jayden Bogle's position

[Uptherams]

Just interested to see what people think Jayden Bogle's position will primarily be next season. Whenever that is.

We've seen him pushed into midfield multiple times this season and in terms of ability, appears better at bombing forward than defending. 

Might he even play more minutes next season in midfield than defence? 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Just interested to see what people think Jayden Bogle's position will primarily be next season. Whenever that is.

We've seen him pushed into midfield multiple times this season and in terms of ability, appears better at bombing forward than defending. 

Might he even play more minutes next season in midfield than defence? 

On the bench at Burnley?

[B4ev6is]

I think depands on what happens to max bird but for jayden bogle was always quite out wide last season until that own goal. But he could be good in midfield but he needs trust himself playing wise.

[Millenniumram]

He’s a defender. He should be playing RB, or perhaps RWB if Cocu switches to a 3 at the back system. He shouldn’t be playing in midfield. I’ve said it before, he’s good going forward precisely because he starts from deep - so he receives less defensive attention and gets more space to run into. If you try to covert him into a winger, you’ll take that space away from him, which imo will make him a weaker player. 

I think it’s clear he needs to be a bit better defensively to take his game to the next level - but I don’t think you solve that problem by moving him further forward. He simply needs to work in training on improving that part of his game - with good coaching from Cocu and his staff, I have confidence that Jayden has it in him. He just needs to make sure he’s focusing on what he’s being taught - there’s been some suspicions that maybe he hasn’t been doing that as much as he should be.

[TommyPowell]

Why on earth would you play Bogle in midfield? have you forgotten the 8 we already have? Rooney-Shinnie- Bielik-Bird-Knight-Holmes-Evans-Sibley

[Dimmu]

1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

On the bench at Burnley?

My first thought as well!

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, TommyPowell said:

Why on earth would you play Bogle in midfield? have you forgotten the 8 we already have? Rooney-Shinnie- Bielik-Bird-Knight-Holmes-Evans-Sibley

I think he means RW. 
Bogle’s only really moved there when we’re 3 goals up... we sit a bit deeper and Bogle has a bit more space further up the pitch - see Stoke at home as an example. He also started there for one game, although that was a result of Bielik(?) getting injured in the warmup and starting 433 rather than 5 at the back (Bogle RWB)

[europia]

Unless his defending improves he's probably going to end up on the right wing. 

[Anag Ram]

He’s still very young. If he is prepared to listen and learn about the craft of defending he can be a great player.

He has skill and pace but he needs to develop that ‘you ain’t beating me’ mentality that all great defenders have.

I’m not sure that we have a defence that goes into every game thinking let’s make sure we keep a clean sheet.

As a defender you need to be hyper vigilant at all times and Jayden might develop that in time.

His weaknesses are in the air (he’s not physical enough) and the occasional mental aberration in possession.

If he can overcome those he’ll be alright.

Sticking him in midfield looks like the club has given up on him and is pandering to his yearning to do the flashy stuff rather than the graft.

[Dimmu]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

He’s still very young. If he is prepared to listen and learn about the craft of defending he can be a great player.

He has skill and pace but he needs to develop that ‘you ain’t beating me’ mentality that all great defenders have.

I’m not sure that we have a defence that goes into every game thinking let’s make sure we keep a clean sheet.

As a defender you need to be hyper vigilant at all times and Jayden might develop that in time.

His weaknesses are in the air (he’s not physical enough) and the occasional mental aberration in possession.

If he can overcome those he’ll be alright.

Sticking him in midfield looks like the club has given up on him and is pandering to his yearning to do the flashy stuff rather than the graft.

Good thinking, I agree with most of it. But I'm not sure is he that pacy?

I think that's the reason why he is still playing with us. He can no doubt develope to good player but I'm afraid his ceiling is not that high due to lack of natural speed. Unfortunately for him, the game is becoming faster all the time.

[Ramchop]

15 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

..there’s been some suspicions that maybe he hasn’t been doing that as much as he should be.

Suspicions? Or lazy stereotyping by a now sacked radio pundit?

The kid broke through into the first team at an early age, dislodging Andre Wisdom. I think that takes a bit of "graft", don't you? 

Seriously, he's come on leaps and bounds in the 18 months of first team football he's had

[Sheikh n Bake]

15 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

He’s a defender. He should be playing RB, or perhaps RWB if Cocu switches to a 3 at the back system. He shouldn’t be playing in midfield. I’ve said it before, he’s good going forward precisely because he starts from deep - so he receives less defensive attention and gets more space to run into. If you try to covert him into a winger, you’ll take that space away from him, which imo will make him a weaker player. 

I think it’s clear he needs to be a bit better defensively to take his game to the next level - but I don’t think you solve that problem by moving him further forward. He simply needs to work in training on improving that part of his game - with good coaching from Cocu and his staff, I have confidence that Jayden has it in him. He just needs to make sure he’s focusing on what he’s being taught - there’s been some suspicions that maybe he hasn’t been doing that as much as he should be.

People said the same about Gareth Bale. 

IMO: Get him up there at RW. Get Ebosele in at RB. That's 1 less winger we need to buy in the summer and another exciting prospect on the pitch.

Without signing any players:

                             Roos

Ebosele        Wierik        Bielik        Lowe

                  Rooney Bird  Knight

Bogle                Marriott             Lawrence

PS - I hate Bielik at CB. I think he was worse than Clod Davies; to slow and has the turning circle of a tank. Completely different at CDM, but we don't have much else in that position. 

 

[Dethorn]

15 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

He’s a defender. He should be playing RB, or perhaps RWB if Cocu switches to a 3 at the back system. He shouldn’t be playing in midfield. I’ve said it before, he’s good going forward precisely because he starts from deep - so he receives less defensive attention and gets more space to run into. If you try to covert him into a winger, you’ll take that space away from him, which imo will make him a weaker player. 

I think it’s clear he needs to be a bit better defensively to take his game to the next level - but I don’t think you solve that problem by moving him further forward. He simply needs to work in training on improving that part of his game - with good coaching from Cocu and his staff, I have confidence that Jayden has it in him. He just needs to make sure he’s focusing on what he’s being taught - there’s been some suspicions that maybe he hasn’t been doing that as much as he should be.

Didn't work for Bale either

I am not disagreeing with you totally but things (except Derby) are rarely black and White

He is still young enough that he could change imho

[TramRam]

16 hours ago, TommyPowell said:

Why on earth would you play Bogle in midfield? have you forgotten the 9 we already have? Rooney-Shinnie- Bielik-Bird-Knight-Holmes-Evans-Sibley and Anya ☺️

FIFY ?

[Millenniumram]

34 minutes ago, Ramchop said:

Suspicions? Or lazy stereotyping by a now sacked radio pundit?

The kid broke through into the first team at an early age, dislodging Andre Wisdom. I think that takes a bit of "graft", don't you? 

Seriously, he's come on leaps and bounds in the 18 months of first team football he's had

Ramage’s racist comments came after an interview with Cocu where he alluded to Bogle perhaps not taking on all the advice he’s been given, and not focusing enough on the areas of his game which need improvement. It’s obviously the comments from Cocu that I’m referring to, any opinion from Craig Ramage isn’t worth the time of day. With the manager making comments like that, I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to suggest there may be something wrong with Bogle’s application in training.

FWIW, I’m not accusing him of being lazy or not hard working enough. It took a lot to break into the first team at his age, and not all of it was pure natural ability. Any academy player displacing a senior player takes a lot of focus and graft. The point I’m making is, maybe he isn’t putting enough of that graft towards the areas of his game that really need it - it strikes me he maybe over focuses on the more “interesting” attacking side of being a full back, which he already does very well, and maybe neglects the also very important defensive side, which he doesn’t do quite so well imo.

On your final point.... has he? It may sound harsh, but I think he was better last season that he has been this season. Once he got going last season, he looked every bit a Prem class player - whereas this season, he’s looked a player too lacking in defensive awareness to make that step up. That isn’t to say he’s had a poor season, he’s still had a very decent campaign, and he’s still a damn good player at this level - I’m delighted to have him in our side. He just started from a very high level of performance that was maybe hard to maintain. Nevertheless, any form of regression in a young player is concerning, and I think we need to be looking at how to get his development back on track.

[Ambitious]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Bogle initially a winger anyway? He's been changed into a full back and seems more comfortable there. He's a decent enough defender, so I don't really have a problem with it.

What I would say is that he will definitely be sold when the transfer window opens anyway, no doubt about it. Right back is a position we're comfortable in and we're hemorrhaging money. Bogle will be shipped out as he'll gauge interest. He will get a bigger fee than Wisdom, plus we have Ebosele coming through. 

[Ramchop]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

On your final point.... has he? It may sound harsh, but I think he was better last season that he has been this season. Once he got going last season, he looked every bit a Prem class player - whereas this season, he’s looked a player too lacking in defensive awareness to make that step up. That isn’t to say he’s had a poor season, he’s still had a very decent campaign, and he’s still a damn good player at this level - I’m delighted to have him in our side. He just started from a very high level of performance that was maybe hard to maintain. Nevertheless, any form of regression in a young player is concerning, and I think we need to be looking at how to get his development back on track.

His first season he got a free hit, in that nothing was expected from him. Now he's expected to have fixed all the issues that were apparent in his first season, and I think he has improved on his positioning, but maybe not his decision making at times. But next year, the year after that, or the year after that (when he'll be 22!) he will have ironed out those creases (or had multiple ACLs; who knows)

[Dale The Ram]

3 hours ago, Nick_Ram said:

People said the same about Gareth Bale. 

IMO: Get him up there at RW. Get Ebosele in at RB. That's 1 less winger we need to buy in the summer and another exciting prospect on the pitch.

Without signing any players:

                             Roos

Ebosele        Wierik        Bielik        Lowe

                  Rooney Bird  Knight

Bogle                Marriott             Lawrence

PS - I hate Bielik at CB. I think he was worse than Clod Davies; to slow and has the turning circle of a tank. Completely different at CDM, but we don't have much else in that position. 

 

I think Ebosele will be a great player but I can see him being another Bogle (not a bad thing at all) due to his height and attacking runs.

[Anag Ram]

3 hours ago, TramRam said:

FIFY ?

Enya's got more chance of playing for us than Anya. 

[ThePrisoner]

1 minute ago, Anag Ram said:

Enya's got more chance of playing for us than Anya. 

She could sail away down the wing.