Coronavirus

[GboroRam]

11 minutes ago, sage said:

Just booked by vaccine slot for Wednesday night and one for 12 weeks later.

Didn't offer me Babington Hospital which is 200m away from where I live but only got to go to Horsley Woodhouse.

Hurrah. 

You get to join the Groovy Gang.

[BIllyD]

13 minutes ago, sage said:

Just booked by vaccine slot for Wednesday night and one for 12 weeks later.

Didn't offer me Babington Hospital which is 200m away from where I live but only got to go to Horsley Woodhouse.

Hurrah. 

Opposite for me, although the wife got Woodhouse at weekend so I guess pot luck.

[Spanish]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

In terms of official UK Covid statistics, "pre-existing health conditions" has been defined and is not open to interpretation.

does that mean obesity

[Comrade 86]

3 hours ago, TexasRam said:

I don’t need to do a PHD study just to tick your boxes. I’m happy with my opinion and the basis for it, so that’s good enough for me. As Joking etc, I’m also quite a happy person, like to have a bit of fun and not trying to be the a expert. You should try it maybe, you’d enjoy life a bit more. 

 I see no reason to not try to lighten the mood buddy, but perhaps @Albert doesn't feel that 100K+ deaths are much of a joking matter.

3 hours ago, TexasRam said:

I put my basic argument together based on my thoughts and opinions that are important to me. 

Not a strategy that has played out well though, is it? In fairness your 'opinions' allowed you to scoff at the notion of 50,000 infections a day, a second wave and a variety of other things you were adamant would not happen but did, so perhaps suggesting that you do a little homework (or prepare to have your 'opinions' politely debunked) is not as unreasonable as you are now trying to infer?

In all honesty, if you are not happy for folk to address the points you make, then why make them in the first place? This is a forum, not an echo chamber.

[Gone]

55 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

 I see no reason to not try to lighten the mood buddy, but perhaps @Albert doesn't feel that 100K+ deaths are much of a joking matter.

Not a strategy that has played out well though, is it? In fairness your 'opinions' allowed you to scoff at the notion of 50,000 infections a day, a second wave and a variety of other things you were adamant would not happen but did, so perhaps suggesting that you do a little homework (or prepare to have your 'opinions' politely debunked) is not as unreasonable as you are now trying to infer?

In all honesty, if you are not happy for folk to address the points you make, then why make them in the first place? This is a forum, not an echo chamber.

Fair points and I can’t disagree with any of them 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

does that mean obesity

I can only find a document from July which lists them, but I'll be surprised if the list has changed as they defines it as: Pre-existing conditions are grouped using the ONS Leading Causes of Deaths list  and International Classification of Disease version 10 blocks of causes. 
Obesity is listed, but appears on about 1% of death certificates (23rd most common pre-existing condition). The average person dying with Covid, dies with over 2 pre-existing conditions.

Top 5 pre-existing conditions are:
   - Dementia / Alzheimer's
   - "Symptoms signs and ill-defined conditions" (whatever that means)
   - Influenza and pneumonia
   - Diabetes
   - Hypertensive diseases

 

 

To answer an earlier question (can't remember who brought it up)...

As of July 4th 2020, there were just over 50,000 Covid deaths in England and Wales. Only 192 of those were people under 50 and without pre-existing conditions.
The figure was 4476 for all ages (8.5%)

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I can only find a document from July which lists them, but I'll be surprised if the list has changed as they defines it as: Pre-existing conditions are grouped using the ONS Leading Causes of Deaths list  and International Classification of Disease version 10 blocks of causes. 
Obesity is listed, but appears on about 1% of death certificates (23rd most common pre-existing condition). The average person dying with Covid, dies with over 2 pre-existing conditions.

Top 5 pre-existing conditions are:
   - Dementia / Alzheimer's
   - "Symptoms signs and ill-defined conditions" (whatever that means)
   - Influenza and pneumonia
   - Diabetes
   - Hypertensive diseases

 

 

To answer an earlier question (can't remember who brought it up)...

As of July 4th 2020, there were just over 50,000 Covid deaths in England and Wales. Only 192 of those were people under 50 and without pre-existing conditions.
The figure was 4476 for all ages (8.5%)

I posted this back in December, which shows just how many people are included in the "pre-existing conditions" classification, which was broken down in an NHS deaths spreadsheet which outlined the categories of pre-existing condition and number of people who had them who died with Covid. 

There is an interesting breakdown of stats in the attached spreadsheet, especially Tab4

I was wondering what the health of the population is, and how many people could be classed as having a pre existing condition. Of course there will be multiple illnesses at once in individuals but its shocking. I'm not surprised at all that most people who die have a pre existing condition. 

Asthma - 12%

Chronic kidney disease - c. 3m, 4%

Chronic neurological disease - hard to find a definition, but between 1 and 10m, so could be up to 6.5%

COPD - 1.2m, nearly 2%

Dementia - 850k, just over 1%

Diabetes - 4.7m, 7%

Rheumatoid arthritis - 1%. Other diseases may be added in this category 

Coronary heart disease - 7.4m, 11%

Obesity, not on the list but added as we're talking about it - 28.7%

 

1. https://statistics.blf.org.uk/asthma

2. https://www.kidneycareuk.org/news-and-campaigns/facts-and-stats/

3. https://www.bsrm.org.uk/downloads/long-term-neurological-conditions-concise.pdf

4. https://statistics.blf.org.uk/#:~:text=About 10%2C000 people in the,mainly inhalers) for lung disease.

5. https://www.england.nhs.uk/mental-health/dementia/#:~:text=In England it is estimated,roughly doubles every five years.

6. https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/new-stats-people-living-with-diabetes

7. https://nras.org.uk/resource/what-is-ra/

8. https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/our-research/heart-statistics

9. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03336/#:~:text=The Health Survey for England,BMI) of 30 or above.

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I posted this back in December, which shows just how many people are included in the "pre-existing conditions" classification, which was broken down in an NHS deaths spreadsheet which outlined the categories of pre-existing condition and number of people who had them who died with Covid. 

There is an interesting breakdown of stats in the attached spreadsheet, especially Tab4

I was wondering what the health of the population is, and how many people could be classed as having a pre existing condition. Of course there will be multiple illnesses at once in individuals but its shocking. I'm not surprised at all that most people who die have a pre existing condition. 

Asthma - 12%

Chronic kidney disease - c. 3m, 4%

Chronic neurological disease - hard to find a definition, but between 1 and 10m, so could be up to 6.5%

COPD - 1.2m, nearly 2%

Dementia - 850k, just over 1%

Diabetes - 4.7m, 7%

Rheumatoid arthritis - 1%. Other diseases may be added in this category 

Coronary heart disease - 7.4m, 11%

Obesity, not on the list but added as we're talking about it - 28.7%

 

1. https://statistics.blf.org.uk/asthma

2. https://www.kidneycareuk.org/news-and-campaigns/facts-and-stats/

3. https://www.bsrm.org.uk/downloads/long-term-neurological-conditions-concise.pdf

4. https://statistics.blf.org.uk/#:~:text=About 10%2C000 people in the,mainly inhalers) for lung disease.

5. https://www.england.nhs.uk/mental-health/dementia/#:~:text=In England it is estimated,roughly doubles every five years.

6. https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/new-stats-people-living-with-diabetes

7. https://nras.org.uk/resource/what-is-ra/

8. https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/our-research/heart-statistics

9. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03336/#:~:text=The Health Survey for England,BMI) of 30 or above.

From 50,335 deaths, there were a few odd inclusions:

Fractured forearm - 8
Dislocated hip - 2
Land Transport accidents - 2
Migraine - 1

 

[Stive Pesley]

30 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I was wondering what the health of the population is, and how many people could be classed as having a pre existing condition. Of course there will be multiple illnesses at once in individuals but its shocking. I'm not surprised at all that most people who die have a pre existing condition. 

I'd almost go so far as to say that there are probably more people with a pre-existing health condition of some sort than there are without

I believed I didnt have any type of long term health condition until the age of 49 when I suddenly discovered via a random blood test that I do, and I've had it all my life. Just been blissfully unaware of it. I'd never heard of it before and I'm sure most people haven't. Even my GP was googling it

 

[Angry Ram]

9 hours ago, Albert said:

Not sure why you'd ask me as opposed to, you know, doing basic research and constructing your argument properly. 

It's interesting that you feel so incapable of mounting a counter that now your aim is just to make jokes. 

Priceless. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Priceless. 

To borrow one of his phrases - this is a tactic which you regularly use blah blah blah

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, sage said:

Just booked by vaccine slot for Wednesday night and one for 12 weeks later.

Didn't offer me Babington Hospital which is 200m away from where I live but only got to go to Horsley Woodhouse.

Hurrah. 

The Memsahib had her first shot today at Derby Arena.

In and out in 5 minutes (they ask drivers to sit for 10-15 minutes after receiving the vaccine, but seeing as I'm her chauffeur, that wasn't necessary).

[Marriot Ram99]

I was discussing this with my family earlier and when I say discussing I mean ranting but what do people think the likelihood is of a third or 4th lockdown and the potential for normality not to return for a good few years? 

I'm under the impression that with the vaccination programme successful as it has been  it seems like a return to normality should be a few month's away. However, it also seems to me the idea of further lockdowns aren't being ruled out and I wouldn't be surprised if by Christmas we are still in lockdown after being forced back into it due to some other variant or fault with the vaccines. 

Therefore,  the costs of lockdown will reach a level that far outweigh the benefits to most people leaving longterm impacts that dwarf the wars. This isn't necessarily a prediction but if it is a reasonable possibility then I struggle to be optimistic when who knows how many more lockdowns the government will force upon people if there is some other variant. Makes me think we should cut our losses soon and return to normality before another surge of the virus. Continued lockdown isn't sustainable and no matter the circumstances this has to be the last imo. 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

I was discussing this with my family earlier and when I say discussing I mean ranting but what do people think the likelihood is of a third or 4th lockdown and the potential for normality not to return for a good few years? 

I'm under the impression that with the vaccination programme successful as it has been  it seems like a return to normality should be a few month's away. However, it also seems to me the idea of further lockdowns aren't being ruled out and I wouldn't be surprised if by Christmas we are still in lockdown after being forced back into it due to some other variant or fault with the vaccines. 

Therefore,  the costs of lockdown will reach a level that far outweigh the benefits to most people leaving longterm impacts that dwarf the wars. This isn't necessarily a prediction but if it is a reasonable possibility then I struggle to be optimistic when who knows how many more lockdowns the government will force upon people if there is some other variant. Makes me think we should cut our losses soon and return to normality before another surge of the virus. Continued lockdown isn't sustainable and no matter the circumstances this has to be the last imo. 

Yep , we have become so obsessed with possibly dying that we are prepared to stop living , sad as the numbers are they are a tiny percentage ,vaccines and treatment s take it further down ,

im 60 ,how many years of decent living do I have left ? Truth is who knows I could peg it tomorrow, what we have now is not life ,it’s not living ,we are all going to die we have no choice but we do have a choice whether to live ooops we used to have a choice 

get this lockdown ended and no more

[maxjam]

 

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

I was discussing this with my family earlier and when I say discussing I mean ranting but what do people think the likelihood is of a third or 4th lockdown and the potential for normality not to return for a good few years? 

Unlikely we'll have a 3rd or 4th lockdown as we have vaccines now. Main dangers are either we open up much too quickly and infections and hospitalisations spike again, or there is a new variant which the vaccines don't work against.

2 hours ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

I'm under the impression that with the vaccination programme successful as it has been  it seems like a return to normality should be a few month's away.

Yep, I think that is what everyone is thinking, without perhaps foreign travel straight away...possibly masks and some social distancing for a little while longer.

2 hours ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

However, it also seems to me the idea of further lockdowns aren't being ruled out

After multiple stupidly overly optimistic productions from our government, they finally seem to have got the idea of highlighting some caution. Probably some focus group told them that us plebs don't take well to promises that are impossible to achieve, and you can't quite yet lie your way out of such situations. Unfortunately for this government, they may find other such promises coming come to roost.

[Rev]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

The Memsahib had her first shot today at Derby Arena.

In and out in 5 minutes (they ask drivers to sit for 10-15 minutes after receiving the vaccine, but seeing as I'm her chauffeur, that wasn't necessary).

Surely you should have waited the time before leaving, having been jabbed or just driving someone who has been?

The whole point of waiting is to see if any adverse reaction occurs, if such reaction occurs 10 minutes after you've driven off you're 20 minutes from treatment, rather than seconds.

 

[Wolfie20]

3 minutes ago, Rev said:

Surely you should have waited the time before leaving, having been jabbed or just driving someone who has been?

The whole point of waiting is to see if any adverse reaction occurs, if such reaction occurs 10 minutes after you've driven off you're 20 minutes from treatment, rather than seconds.

 

I understand it depends on which vaccine you've had as to whether there's a need for waiting. I had the Pfizer and had to wait the 15 minutes, the missus had the Astrazenica and left immediately after the jab - same surgery.

[Rev]

10 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

I understand it depends on which vaccine you've had as to whether there's a need for waiting. I had the Pfizer and had to wait the 15 minutes, the missus had the Astrazenica and left immediately after the jab - same surgery.

Fair enough, I'm just going off previous jabs where they ask you to hang around for a few minutes, just in case of an adverse reaction.

 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Rev said:

Fair enough, I'm just going off previous jabs where they ask you to hang around for a few minutes, just in case of an adverse reaction.

 

It was news to me as well.

When I had mine a couple of weeks ago (AstraZeneca) I sat for about 10 minutes chatting to the nurse afterwards. Sue today had the same vaccine as I did, so I was quite surprised to see her coming out of the centre just 5 minutes after she went in. Same jab, but they did ask her if she was driving.