Coronavirus

[uttoxram75]

4 minutes ago, Albert said:

'Global Research' is a conspiracy theory website, who push disinformation, and are allegedly Kremlin backed. The founder is a board member of other pro-Russian platforms as well. 

They're big on claiming things are false flags if my memory serves me right, including claiming the CIA did 9/11, and if I recall right they even claimed that a coalition of the US, UK and Israel did the London bombings.

On Covid, they initially claimed it wasn't real, then that it originated in the USA. They also have a history of vaccine based conspiracy theories. 

Also, you can usually spot such websites, as they're usually chockers with ads. Actual research tends to get externally funded, hence doesn't need to rely on clicks in the same way. Conspiracy websites almost exclusively make their cash from people consuming their nonsense, hence get filled to the brim with ads. Ads doesn't immediately mean you should disregard a source of course, but you should usually look more into it when there's so many. 

As to their actual claims, they spend much of this article quote mining to build a platform to appeal to authority, then go off the deep end. The real meat of their claim comes back to PCR testing, and claiming more testing means more false positives, to 'spread panic'. Now, there's a massive number of problems with what they're claiming, not least of which is that the trend isn't just in cases, but hospitalisations, and deaths, which is what you're expect for a second wave. Their claim that more testing leads to more positives is easily shown to be false, given that countries where the virus is controlled have maintained extremely low positive rates (as nobody has it). This is not the case in the UK. Additionally, they're just flat out wrong about the PCR testing in terms of false positives in any case; they're rare, and make up a vanishingly small number of the positive cases. Their claims about it 'picking up parts of influenza viruses' are just them misrepresenting how the PCR testing works, the tests in question are highly specific, and will not be picking up other viruses as they claim. They also ignore serology studies. 

They brush over the deaths by just saying 'the falsification of death certificates'. We know there is an increased number of deaths this year, and they correlate with the cases; there is no question that the virus is killing people, none at all, we can tell this both case by case, as well as through testing and analysis of trends of deaths. If anything, the suggestion is that the number of deaths has been underestimated, as the virus can kill by organ failure, but these can get missed as the virus is widely associated with pneumonia. Given the number of cases, the number of people you expect to die 'with', as opposed to 'of' Covid-19 is quite small, as discussed earlier in this thread. 

So, it's a conspiracy website with alleged links to the Kremlin pushing disinformation. 

Thanks, thats why i asked.

Everything seems Kremlin linked nowadays, from Johnson, Cummings, Farage to Trump.

WTF is going on?

[uttoxram75]

4 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Not since they sacked the Missus.

Or before truth told!

There is a certain type of fart the richness and diversity of can only be accomplished by 5 pints of Marston Pedigree or Bass.

[Albert]

5 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Thanks, thats why i asked.

Everything seems Kremlin linked nowadays, from Johnson, Cummings, Farage to Trump.

WTF is going on?

Russia needs countries that would stand in it's ways in Eastern Europe distracted to achieve their goals. The internet is a powerful tool to achieve this, as small investments in 'grass roots' disinformation will magnify as you get the locals into it; there's always some out there who are interested in conspiracies. It's all about chaos. 

The strategies are longer term than that, of course. It's been the way since the USSR, the difference now is that the internet makes it cheaper and easier to set such up. 

That said, the US, UK and co all do similar stuff, it's just they're not targeting themselves in the same was, and are the 'good guys' for us all, so it goes largely ignored. The key is, however, that you are cautious of such. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

You won't get any anger from me Eddie. I really am trying to understand whats going on.

The one thing i do know, becasue of my job, is that cloth masks are bad for you. That's  a long standing proven fact. The build up of bacteria over even a short period of time could easily cause a pneumonia type infection unless you put a clean one on after every use, even a 5 minute use to pop in your local shop.

This doesn't seem to have been explained to everyone, if it has i must have missed it.

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/9072351115

[Gritstone Ram]

11 hours ago, jimmyp said:

It really isn’t about expecting everyone to suffer. It’s about what is currently possible, given the situation we are in, and which is the less &@“£ option out of our list of very £”@& options.

It’s all very negative, but also very realistic. 

 

How do we sufficiently isolate the vulnerable long term. 

Are we talking extremely clinically vulnerable, clinically vulnerable or moderately vulnerable. 

Do we lock up all the kids and people with problematic asthma, pregnant women, obese folk and everybody above the age of 60? 

How do we operate the nhs to cater for both the vulnerable and the capable.

Does every care worker, doctor and everyone in the medical profession, police officers, special needs teachers, to name but a few also need to isolate?  

 

 

People could use their brains a bit and instead of waiting to be told what to do they could just reduce their contact between each other. May be not have the big party until things look better. Why do people have to wait to be told by Boris Johnson or that slap head Chris Whitty? Surely is it too much to ask for people to apply some common sense and not have to be told what to do all the time. People are quick to blame the government or a other person when really if everyone stepped back and thought will my actions help spread this virus? should I do this? Am I doing the right thing here? I think things would be a lot better.

[1967Ram]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/11/whitehall-told-to-release-secret-2016-files-on-uk-pandemic-risks

 

[Archied]

On 09/10/2020 at 20:21, Pearl Ram said:

To protect the less than 1% ? ?‍♂️ You might be alright with somebody kicking it earlier than they might have ordinarily, I’m not and don’t mind doing my bit to contribute to their safety.

Ok then why are we not taxing to the hilt everybody, every business , stopping the world to cure cancer or other far bigger killers? Why do we allow cars as they kill before people’s time ,,, the list is far to endless to go on 

government s don’t run countries , established money and power do ,,, there are millions of decent hardworking ,middle class, working class people in this country and others who are having every penny they have worked for and invested in business s from restaurants to pubs ,bars ,gyms , salons ect ect destroyed and losing the lot and probably their homes too as this plays on and on ,, 

all this stuff will return but hoovered up and in the hands of established money and there will be plenty of previously self sufficient people now dependant to work for peanuts

 

[i-Ram]

9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Cloth masks will harbour bacteria which multiplies very quickly. If you don't wear a fresh one each time you're breathing in huge amounts of bacteria.

I work in a food manufacturing factory and we were taught this 30 years ago.

Blimey. You’re now accepting information from the 80’s. There was I thinking you were firmly stuck in the 70’s.

[Wolfie20]

25 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

People could use their brains a bit and instead of waiting to be told what to do they could just reduce their contact between each other. May be not have the big party until things look better. Why do people have to wait to be told by Boris Johnson or that slap head Chris Whitty? Surely is it too much to ask for people to apply some common sense and not have to be told what to do all the time. People are quick to blame the government or a other person when really if everyone stepped back and thought will my actions help spread this virus? should I do this? Am I doing the right thing here? I think things would be a lot better.

Isn't that really the crux of the issue - people making the right decisions for themselves and just as importantly, taking the actions which protect others? From what I've seen the vast majority have been careful and considerate but sadly a tiny minority have the view that they'll do what they want, where they want, when they want and sod the consequences.

The Government has lacked clear, positive leadership and its' advice has been mainly reactive rather than proactive, piecemeal and for the most part downright confusing but ultimately how we beat this is down to us.

[ariotofmyown]

26 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/11/whitehall-told-to-release-secret-2016-files-on-uk-pandemic-risks

 

I'm surprised this wasn't realised immediately to pass the buck onto the previous leadership, unless it exposes Johnson or Gove who were maybe involved in ignoring it?

[jimmyp]

40 minutes ago, Archied said:

Ok then why are we not taxing to the hilt everybody, every business , stopping the world to cure cancer or other far bigger killers? Why do we allow cars as they kill before people’s time ,,, the list is far to endless to go on 

government s don’t run countries , established money and power do ,,, there are millions of decent hardworking ,middle class, working class people in this country and others who are having every penny they have worked for and invested in business s from restaurants to pubs ,bars ,gyms , salons ect ect destroyed and losing the lot and probably their homes too as this plays on and on ,, 

all this stuff will return but hoovered up and in the hands of established money and there will be plenty of previously self sufficient people now dependant to work for peanuts

 

Cancer is very complex, we also have lots of different types of cancer. We simply don’t know how to cure cancer irrespective of the monumental amount of money we have spent and continue to spend in trying.

Yes cars kill can kill people, that’s why we have lots of rules and regulations to limit this from happening. People are still going to die from Covid and still going to suffer even with rules / restrictions  in place, the rules will however reduce both of the above. 

The effect of Covid as you have pointed out is very negative for your average joe. That is precisely why people need to socially distance and follow the medical advice given by the doctors and scientists. If we all follow the rules / restrictions and the government implement test and trace fully we won’t have to have as many draconian restrictions. It sucks but it’s got to be done. 

 

 

[Archied]

16 hours ago, Eddie said:

Give me one good reason why I should give a toss about anybody else if their attitude is "I don't care if the old folks die, just so long as I can go to the pub".

 

And here was me thinking that these measures were much much much more than just going to the pub , glad you cleared that up Eddie ,close the pubs and let’s all crack on then ???

[ariotofmyown]

Classic Americans, classic Pence. This thread is crazy.

 

[Uptherams]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Classic Americans, classic Pence. This thread is crazy.

 

I gather you've not been in to Derby City center lately? I walked past thousands of people in the space of 10 minutes at about 4pm. It was as busy as ever. Almost no one had a mask on because they were outside. Lot's of people in groups and families. People queueing to get in to shops. Stood closer than 1 meter apart. Primark alone it was about 75 people. Then the pubs too. People in close proximity, being forced to queue outside. 

I get you are trying to make some political point though ?

[Uptherams]

17 hours ago, Eddie said:

House arrest is fine by you, just so you can have a pint.

Got it.

How about we ban you from drinking at home whilst you are in a self imposed house arrest ?

 

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Classic Americans, classic Pence. This thread is crazy.

 

 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

And here was me thinking that these measures were much much much more than just going to the pub , glad you cleared that up Eddie ,close the pubs and let’s all crack on then ???

They're supposed to be, but for some on here, messages have to be brought down to the lowest common denominator.

We are in the age of slogans, preferably of three words or less.

[alexxxxx]

17 minutes ago, maxjam said:

 

Not quite sure how one is relevant to the other. 

Young people having a laugh walking home and old vulnerable people actively deciding to move seats together. 

Looks 'lawless' but timestamp is only a few minutes after the pubs shut and that road (Rye Lane) is closed to traffic. 

[Ramarena]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Classic Americans, classic Pence. This thread is crazy.

 

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Not quite sure how one is relevant to the other. 

Young people having a laugh walking home and old vulnerable people actively deciding to move seats together. 

Looks 'lawless' but timestamp is only a few minutes after the pubs shut and that road (Rye Lane) is closed to traffic. 

People gathering in large numbers not wearing masks is not just limited to one political party.

In fact, looking at the papers this morning there is a very anti-political theme running through most of them.