Coronavirus

[jimmyp]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

How emergency procurement appears to work...

1. Crisis ensues

2. Make phone call to friend

3. Friend forms company

4. Give contract to friend

5. Profit.

6. Fulfilment of contract (the main reason we have emergency procurement regulations)

 

I do agree that emergency procurement has many faults, including the apparent lack of due diligence carried out in certain contracts signed by our government and by many other European governments. 

If it delivers the goods though it has served its purpose. 

 

 

[Gone]

44 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I guess it's just nice to see Nottingham surge up the table

That’s me in lockdown then ?

[Wolfie]

41 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

6. Fulfilment of contract (the main reason we have emergency procurement regulations)

 

I do agree that emergency procurement has many faults, including the apparent lack of due diligence carried out in certain contracts signed by our government and by many other European governments. 

If it delivers the goods though it has served its purpose. 

 

 

I quite agree.

I deal with procurement from Government department regularly and their "normal" process would take around 4 months on average from start to finish.

Even with their current fast-track process for what we provide (not PPE), it's still averaging about 2 months from tender to signed contract.

There just wasn't that kind of time back in the spring.

[Comrade 86]

6 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Was not really an option at the time though was it? ‘Put out to tender’ was the comment. That takes time and a lot of it. The situation was that the whole world was looking for PPE and it was needed there and then. I am sure those companies you mentioned were contacted but that would have been nowhere near enough. 

People are quick to put their Captain Hindsight gear on though. Yeah I would have done this and that blah, blah, blah.

There are already established frameworks and procurement portals bud. Those with access to a significant number of these are pre-approved suppliers who have already been through the standard PQQ processes that are intended to identify companies capable of meeting typical procurement requirements. These frameworks are even broken down by sector, ie, education, government and blue light.

The actual tendering and procurement processes can therefore be handled very swiftly, the only significant variable being delivery schedules. I've spent the last 20 years writing tenders for tech for Uni's, colleges and secondary schools as well as the wider public sector so it's a process that I'm very familiar with. A tender for 10 million masks for instance, can be processed in a matter of minutes with the responders given as little as 3 days to submit their submissions if time is of the essence. Circumnavigating these frameworks is actually the time consuming means to go about sourcing goods and services, not vice versa. It also means that not only can contracts be awarded to firms with no proven track record, but without the competitive nature of tendering processes, it's also very hard to ensure best value is achieved. Likewise quality control as proven by the millions wasted on goods PPE immediately deemed unfit for purpose.

I don't think it's in any way a benefit of hindsight matter and those responsible for awarding some of the contracts issued need to be held to account to explain their reasoning for doing so without using the systems, checks and measures they are legally obliged to.

 

[Stive Pesley]

29 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

There just wasn't that kind of time back in the spring.

That's true - I think it's clear that there were a lot of challenges, and I don't think scrapping the tender process was the wrong thing to do

The issue is the lack of accountability where that removal has process has led to contracts being signed for Shaun Barker-type fees (and a LOT more) with government cronies/conflicts of interest and a seeming disregard for the ability of said parties to deliver or indeed have ANY skills or experience in the matter at hand

It just stinks - and there is a real sense of vulture capitalists rubbing their hands together, laughing all the way to the bank at a time of the biggest global crisis in a generation.

Hopefully there will be inquests when this is all over and the people at fault are held accountable

 

[Angry Ram]

5 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Do you believe there is no emergency procurement procedure that would apply?

With the timelines.. To a degree but not to cover the demand.

[May Contain Nuts]

I know there were big lists of contract amounts and obscure companies, which added up to tens (hundreds? I can't remember) of millions, but followed up with .. 'no equipment delivered/provided' 

I was never sure though if all these random companies ever actually received the money reported (any or all of it) without providing any PPE?

[Rev]

2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

I guess it's just nice to see Nottingham surge up the table

Not when you live there it ain't!

[alexxxxx]

Deaths, hospitalisations, icu usage all steadily increasing unfortunately. Was hoping we'd see the numbers fall to around 8/9k today but not happened. 

I do wonder how to square this with the R number fall predictions being given.. I reckon there's quite a lot of testing going on in the hot-spot areas. 

[1967RAMS]

5 hours ago, Shuff264 said:

Hopefully mate, if so cases should decline as herd immunity builds up within university groups and we shouldn't see a drastic up tick in hospitalisations. 

But we wait and see....

Problem will only surface once reading week has been and gone. There will be potentially thousands of asymptotic positive students going home to get washing, ironing and money supplies topped up by bank of mum and dad. These are likely to be passing the virus to the household. The real problem will arise a few weeks later though, when parents visit their parents and the more vulnerable ones in society are exposed 

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, alexxxxx said:

Deaths, hospitalisations, icu usage all steadily increasing unfortunately. Was hoping we'd see the numbers fall to around 8/9k today but not happened. 

I do wonder how to square this with the R number fall predictions being given.. I reckon there's quite a lot of testing going on in the hot-spot areas. 

Dont worry, it will probably emerge next week that people attending funerals had been counted in the deaths and NHS workers accidentally counted in the number of people being admitted to hospital.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, alexxxxx said:

Deaths, hospitalisations, icu usage all steadily increasing unfortunately. Was hoping we'd see the numbers fall to around 8/9k today but not happened. 

I do wonder how to square this with the R number fall predictions being given.. I reckon there's quite a lot of testing going on in the hot-spot areas. 

Where is the context in these figures?

These figures always rise at this time of year.

Hospital admissions for flu in December reach 1000 per day.

So is this recorded number of 420 or whatever it is, on top of normal flu admissions?

[Albert]

7 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Across 50 campuses in the United States, there were 69,444 PCR positives with three requiring hospitalisation. Thankfully none of these students died. We are seeing the same here as well 

The CDC estimate an infection fatality ratio for people under 20 to be 0.003%, which is indeed low, while this is up to 0.020% for people 20-50, and 0.500% for people 50-70, and 5.400% for people over 70. That indeed suggests you're not expecting many deaths from young people. In fact, doing a roughly rough estimate based on the UKs demographics, if 70% of the population got the disease, you'd expect the following total deaths for each of those previously listed age groups: 320, 3600, 43,000, 450,000. This is in line with what is being seen around the World. 

Now, personally, I don't put a line through people's names when they turn 50, so such would still be a massive concern just on deaths. Equally, even if young people die at a low rate, they are still acting as carriers, still helping put the hospital system under pressure, and more cases will still drive the economy into a hole. The idea of being able to just isolate one fifth of the population is fanciful at best. 

That's also not getting into the developing understanding of organ damage the disease can cause, even for people who were asymptomatic. It'll be interesting to see the full fallout from all of this. 

[Albert]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Where is the context in these figures?

These figures always rise at this time of year.

Hospital admissions for flu in December reach 1000 per day.

So is this recorded number of 420 or whatever it is, on top of normal flu admissions?

?????

Source on this '1000 per day' figure? Daily admissions for the worst seasons I can find were around the 600-650 mark. Given the flu is endemic, and is far less likely to lead to complications, this is what you expect. This time last year they were going at around 4 admissions per day. 

[G STAR RAM]

53 minutes ago, Albert said:

?????

Source on this '1000 per day' figure? Daily admissions for the worst seasons I can find were around the 600-650 mark. Given the flu is endemic, and is far less likely to lead to complications, this is what you expect. This time last year they were going at around 4 admissions per day. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54441133

 

[Uptherams]

Hancock is a lunatic. 

[ariotofmyown]

33 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Hancock is a lunatic. 

Stop making sense!

This would be a very testing period for any government. It's unfortunate we've ended up with one of the worst ever.

No experience, no leadership, no gravitas, all with the nutcase Cummings behind the scenes.

Sunak has been the only one to do any good, and his hard time is coming. I wonder if he may resign to distance himself from this sinking ship? 

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Stop making sense!

This would be a very testing period for any government. It's unfortunate we've ended up with one of the worst ever.

No experience, no leadership, no gravitas, all with the nutcase Cummings behind the scenes.

Sunak has been the only one to do any good, and his hard time is coming. I wonder if he may resign to distance himself from this sinking ship? 

And worst of all, nobody is willing to actually take responsibility for their errors. What happened to individual ministerial responsibility? Hancock should have resigned by now. Seems impossible to hold them to account. 

[1of4]

49 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Hancock is a lunatic. 

The original definition of a lunatic is someone who's mind is affected by the phases of the moon.

Well Hancock is defiantly not a lunatic, as that would require him to possess a mind/brain.

[rammieib]

Lots of positive tests at the moment in universities. Do we not believe these universities were not ripe with positive tests back in Februsry and March then? It must have soared through the universities at the beginning of this year when there was a different year group living in the halls. No one would have even tested as basically students seem to be asymptomatic or mild symptoms.

No evidence to back my viewpoint up, just A) a suspicion and B) The fact Gov sources have said there were 100k plus cases a day back in March/April.