G STAR RAM Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Probably quite telling that your whole angle here is bias confirmation. Eddie's expert is merely "agreeing with Eddie's opinion" and your expert is "proving you right" What about me? I don't have an opinion, i don't think I'm "right" - I just use the critical thinking skills I was taught at school/college/university to read the views of multiple experts and decide which of the experts seems the most qualified and has the most compelling facts The whole "we've had enough of experts" thing is the death knell for society I think you actually need to read the content of my post if you think I said quoting an expert is proving me right, here is what I said:- "would that prove me right? The answer of course is no" I'm afraid you've completely missed the point which was, with lots of different experts having contrasting opinions it is easy for us to find articles to support our own opinion but it doesnt definitively make either of us right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Spanish said: I think you are missing point here. I have to go back to UK tomorrow and it isn't what the experts tell me it is more to do with common sense. will wearing a mask mean I am less likely to infect somebody else?- quite possible does wearing a mask cause a problem to me or others? - no answer = wear a mask this isn't personal choice it is personal responsibility No, not missed the point at all. As I said, I have seen articles that state wearing a mask may but reduce the risk of you transmitting the virus to someone else but it could also make you more susceptible to catching the virus. Personal responsibility can be achieved by following the social distancing guidelines which are obviously considered to have a much greater affect than masks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I have just been to the shops and there is definitely an increase in people wearing them. But.. I watched a bloke lift his down as he came out of one shop, and put it back up as he went in another. He then lifted it down as he spoke to someone in the shop and then again when he was walking the aisle alone and then again stood in the queue. Seems pointless to me. Unless someone is blatantly coughing in your face it seems to prevent nothing being transmitted to you and would if anything create a situation where people are coughing/sneezing in their mask, then constantly touching it and transferring germs everywhere. If it were so important why has the rate still been coming down. Its a purely political decision. People already going in shops will moan and carry on going in, people who want masks to be worn will start to venture out. If there is another peak they can say they tried. You have got pub staff wearing full face shields and taking your mobile number, and yet shelf stackers are happily mooching about next to people all day with nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 36 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: But that is just choosing an 'expert' that agrees with your opinion isnt it? If I linked you to an article that says that wearing a mask could increase viral load and therefore make you more susceptible to getting the disease would that prove me right? The answer of course is no, it just shows another opinion from another 'expert'. I think over the last few months it has become pretty clear that the advice from the experts has to evolve as more becomes known. What bit of 'wearing a mask protects others' do you just not get? The converse is that if others are wearing a mask, then the 'viral load' is just not going to build up on your mask because other people are just not going to be spraying their virus-infused droplets in your direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 The WHO are now talking about avoiding the 3 C's. Close Conversation Crowded Places enClosed spaces with poor ventilation I know CCE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: No, not missed the point at all. As I said, I have seen articles that state wearing a mask may but reduce the risk of you transmitting the virus to someone else but it could also make you more susceptible to catching the virus. Personal responsibility can be achieved by following the social distancing guidelines which are obviously considered to have a much greater affect than masks. You did not read that article, did you? Rutherford pointed out that, of the two most important methods of preventing the spread of the virus (excluding basic personal hygiene here, i.e. frequent hand-washing), in his opinion, mask-wearing was more important than social distancing, but both are vital tools. Please provide a citation that justifies your statement I have emboldened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Stolen from twitter: "The venn diagram of people that think they would have been courageous heroes in WW2 and people that are losing their minds over having to wear a mask for a bit is a single circle." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, Chester40 said: I have just been to the shops and there is definitely an increase in people wearing them. But.. I watched a bloke lift his down as he came out of one shop, and put it back up as he went in another. He then lifted it down as he spoke to someone in the shop and then again when he was walking the aisle alone and then again stood in the queue. Seems pointless to me. Unless someone is blatantly coughing in your face it seems to prevent nothing being transmitted to you and would if anything create a situation where people are coughing/sneezing in their mask, then constantly touching it and transferring germs everywhere. If it were so important why has the rate still been coming down. Its a purely political decision. People already going in shops will moan and carry on going in, people who want masks to be worn will start to venture out. If there is another peak they can say they tried. You have got pub staff wearing full face shields and taking your mobile number, and yet shelf stackers are happily mooching about next to people all day with nothing at all. I noticed yesterday that everyone working in Boots was wearing a mask, and nobody in Wilkos was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 33 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I'm afraid you've completely missed the point which was, with lots of different experts having contrasting opinions it is easy for us to find articles to support our own opinion but it doesnt definitively make either of us right. And you've missed my point that people should be listening to a variety of expert opinions based on verifiable facts and THEN forming an opinion. That's how critical thinking should work People who form their own dumb opinions up front, based on nothing more than gut feeling and a sense of entitlement to do whatever they please and THEN look for experts who agree with them as some sort of proof that they are right are the problem here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Eddie said: I noticed yesterday that everyone working in Boots was wearing a mask, and nobody in Wilkos was. Are you agreeing? Its all a bit random...or is this an anti-Wilkos faction you are creating? I thought you had blocked me...Let's see if we can get through the day without hostilities being resumed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 43 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: No, not missed the point at all. As I said, I have seen articles that state wearing a mask may but reduce the risk of you transmitting the virus to someone else but it could also make you more susceptible to catching the virus. Personal responsibility can be achieved by following the social distancing guidelines which are obviously considered to have a much greater affect than masks. as @Eddiesays by not wearing a mask you possibly are a danger to others. If you don't you must be 100% certain it is not of any benefit at all or it is selfish and denies personal responsibility. I just don't why you have an objection at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 54 minutes ago, Chester40 said: But.. I watched a bloke lift his down as he came out of one shop, and put it back up as he went in another. He then lifted it down as he spoke to someone in the shop and then again when he was walking the aisle alone and then again stood in the queue. I thought touching them was one of the reasons they werent advocated in the first place. Surely if you are touching them then you are transferring the gunk its collected and you just spread it around with your hands and fingers. I noticed Lewis Hamilton in an interview at the weekend, wearing a mask great but never stopped touching and pulling at it. Surely not only have we got to learn to wear a mask but also not do whats natural to us and constantly touch and pull at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 25 minutes ago, Chester40 said: Are you agreeing? Its all a bit random...or is this an anti-Wilkos faction you are creating? I thought you had blocked me...Let's see if we can get through the day without hostilities being resumed ? I unblocked everyone when the politics tab was taken down - and no, I'm not trying to create an anti-anything faction. I bought a new wok in Wilkos - £4.50 for a small non-stick one (although removing the glue from the bloody sticker inconveniently placed inside the pan proved problematic - soap, boiling water, alcohol were all defeated, acetone was a score-draw but hot sunflower oil for 15 minutes proved decisive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 52 minutes ago, Eddie said: I noticed yesterday that everyone working in Boots was wearing a mask, and nobody in Wilkos was. That’s why Wilkos always cheaper ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Is the new wok for ironing your shirts? (old joke I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, Paul71 said: I thought touching them was one of the reasons they werent advocated in the first place. Surely if you are touching them then you are transferring the gunk its collected and you just spread it around with your hands and fingers. I noticed Lewis Hamilton in an interview at the weekend, wearing a mask great but never stopped touching and pulling at it. Surely not only have we got to learn to wear a mask but also not do whats natural to us and constantly touch and pull at it. We carried a small bottle of hand-sanitiser for just such a purpose. I wear spectacles and hearing aids so my ears are already full without a face mask, and after I'd got the mask seated comfortably, my spectacles a little further forward than normal to stop them fogging up, then I was good to go. Again, if everyone wears one, there won't be any appreciable gunk to collect. The virus propagates in cells, is spread in droplets. It only reproduces within cells, the vast majority is spread in droplets of around 20 microns - and these are caught at source by a simple cloth covering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Boycie said: Is the new wok for ironing your shirts? (old joke I know) I consider myself 'whooshed' there, old joke or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Eddie said: What bit of 'wearing a mask protects others' do you just not get? The converse is that if others are wearing a mask, then the 'viral load' is just not going to build up on your mask because other people are just not going to be spraying their virus-infused droplets in your direction. So there is a 100% guarantee that wearing a mask stops the transmission? In which case why has it taken so long for all of the experts to recommend wearing masks? 1 hour ago, Eddie said: You did not read that article, did you? Rutherford pointed out that, of the two most important methods of preventing the spread of the virus (excluding basic personal hygiene here, i.e. frequent hand-washing), in his opinion, mask-wearing was more important than social distancing, but both are vital tools. Please provide a citation that justifies your statement I have emboldened. I would have thought the fact that the medical officers have recommended social distancing rules but not masks would make it quite obvious which they think is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: And you've missed my point that people should be listening to a variety of expert opinions based on verifiable facts and THEN forming an opinion. That's how critical thinking should work People who form their own dumb opinions up front, based on nothing more than gut feeling and a sense of entitlement to do whatever they please and THEN look for experts who agree with them as some sort of proof that they are right are the problem here Is it only people that dont want to wear masks that have done this then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Is it only people that dont want to wear masks that have done this then? No - it's a general point about society as a whole right now. Masks, anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers...it's everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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